How do you solve a problem like Qatar?

Yes, they’re all the same when it comes to the treatment of guest workers and other human rights issues.

We shouldn’t be dependent on their resources (but we are), we shouldn’t let them host international games and the likes if we’re going to complain about them not allowing everyone in, but ultimately their society is based and shaped on their strict interpretation of their religion and as much as I personally wish it didn’t, I don’t think we have any right to impose our own values on them.


(What we could do however is to support the local liberal/human right movements if there are any)
 
It feels like their attempt at sport washing failed miserably. They've surely got a much worse image internationally now than they did before the world cup started, so hopefully that sends a message that this sort of thing can backfire tremendously.
 
GNoëL said:
It feels like their attempt at sport washing failed miserably. They've surely got a much worse image internationally now than they did before the world cup started, so hopefully that sends a message that this sort of thing can backfire tremendously.
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Do they though? A few Western countries doth not make the whole world. I'm sure China weren't looking and thinking 'tut tut'. Although for the liberal west their image will be largely problematic now.
 
HolleBerry🍇 said:
Yes, they’re all the same when it comes to the treatment of guest workers and other human rights issues.

We shouldn’t be dependent on their resources (but we are), we shouldn’t let them host international games and the likes if we’re going to complain about them not allowing everyone in, but ultimately their society is based and shaped on their strict interpretation of their religion and as much as I personally wish it didn’t, I don’t think we have any right to impose our own values on them.


(What we could do however is to support the local liberal/human right movements if there are any)
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I agree with all this, but if they want to open up to the world and develop tourism industries as part of their long term strategy to shift their reliance on oil exports, then they have to expect people coming in to have an opinion on their ‘values’ and ‘culture’. They’re openly profiting from Western money.

Be closed and cruel or be open and progressive. You can’t have it both ways.
 
Jingle Bell Funk said:
I agree with all this, but if they want to open up to the world and develop tourism industries as part of their long term strategy to shift their reliance on oil exports, then they have to expect people coming in to have an opinion on their ‘values’ and ‘culture’. They’re openly profiting from Western money.

Be closed and cruel or be open and progressive. You can’t have it both ways.
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I agree, but they’ve clrealy found a way to manage both. Maybe not Qatar, as I too think their sportwashing didn’t work on the West, but the UAE (mostly Dubai) have absolutely managed it.
 
Well I say you can’t, obviously you can because they do.

There is also an element of them being open and progressive of course - it can’t be easy for them to accept western behaviour in places like Dubai (but hey, money talks) and it’s a game of chess for the royal families to show they mean it with change without pissing off the religious establishment and undermining their rule.

The Saudi 2030 vision is actually really interesting and holds a lot of merit and is, generally speaking, incredibly radical for the Middle East. But I agree with RS that it can’t be for the West to say “you’re doing that too slowly” or “it’s not good enough”. Human rights organisations piling on the pressure is a good thing. Western Governments doing it is problematic (and hypocritical)
 
HolleBerry🍇 said:
I agree, but they’ve clrealy found a way to manage both. Maybe not Qatar, as I too think their sportwashing didn’t work on the West, but the UAE (mostly Dubai) have absolutely managed it.
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Qatar are just 20 years behind. They’re playing catch up and they probably thought the World Cup was a shortcut. Time will tell but I doubt it.
 
GNoëL said:
It feels like their attempt at sport washing failed miserably. They've surely got a much worse image internationally now than they did before the world cup started, so hopefully that sends a message that this sort of thing can backfire tremendously.
Click to expand...

But that’s the thing they don’t want to sport wash or modernize their country in that way. They’re not the UAE who are happy to play ball and allow foreigners to do what they want.

There are forces that actively don’t want the country to become the UAE for example the beer thing in stadiums and as someone who lived there this kind of thing is noticeable. Like in Qatar malls and such are not allowed to celebrate Christmas and put tress compared to UAE where it’s Christmas time now (I’m in Abu Dhabi at the moment and a friend was visiting from Qatar and noted it). It’s just a conservative country and leadership. They want to be a political power but they want it in their way.

Also the country is in a weird place now, all this construction and all these activities for the World Cup are wrapping up but what’s next? They’re not trying to become a tourist destination and everyone there is concerned about their jobs and future.
 
GNoëL said:
It feels like their attempt at sport washing failed miserably. They've surely got a much worse image internationally now than they did before the world cup started
Click to expand...
I'm not sure? I think the big takeaway for a lot of people will be that it was a fantastic and fairly one-off World Cup. I really don't think it hurt Qatar at all in cultural terms.
 
Nobody is going to live in all these new expensive buildings they have built.

If only they accepted to take in a small percentage of the millions of the Arab refugees who were fleeing from the wars that especially Qatar has funded. :eyes:
 
Fairytale of Nü Jark said:
I'm not sure? I think the big takeaway for a lot of people will be that it was a fantastic and fairly one-off World Cup. I really don't think it hurt Qatar at all in cultural terms.
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I guess I'm looking at it from the perspective of someone in the UK where much of the BBC coverage has tied in that it's been controversial, and there's been negative story after negative story associated with it. I don't know if that's the case elsewhere.
 
People will live if there are jobs. It’s just not clear what the next step is.

HolleBerry🍇 said:
Nobody is going to live in all these new expensive buildings they have built.

If only they accepted to take in a small percentage of the millions of the Arab refugees who were fleeing from the wars that especially Qatar has funded. :eyes:
Click to expand...
 
Fairytale of Nü Jark said:
I'm not sure? I think the big takeaway for a lot of people will be that it was a fantastic and fairly one-off World Cup. I really don't think it hurt Qatar at all in cultural terms.
Click to expand...

But that’s the takeaway for everyone outside of Qatar right? Which doesn’t really matter because it’s over - nearly all those visitors will never come back. They built a giant theme park across the country for a month of income. There doesn’t seem to be a long term plan or legacy.

They’re doing a tonne of post event tourist advertising at the moment but I have no idea what their hook is - why would you go to Qatar? Dubai has dune buggies and camels and permanent sunshine as well, but it also has a giant fake city that you can party in 24/7. Qatar doesn’t offer anything new or better.
 
I don’t know how much coverage this EU parliament scandal got in UK but two weeks ago but two or three EU PMs were accused of being bribed by Qatar. They were paid loads of money to say good things about Qatar. So they’re trying in every way to improve their reputation.
 
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