J. K. Rowling and other TERFs

Sadly, I think amongst a lot of older gay men there is a belief that the T doesn't belong with the LGB. They are also often those who don't believe B exists, and don't care much about the L having any rights really either.

It's like they gained a degree of privilege when Section 28 was wiped and with what has happened since, and fuck everyone else.
 
Sadly, I think amongst a lot of older gay men there is a belief that the T doesn't belong with the LGB. They are also often those who don't believe B exists, and don't care much about the L having any rights really either.

It's like they gained a degree of privilege when Section 28 was wiped and with what has happened since, and fuck everyone else.

They didn't really gain it though, it's WHITE MALE PRIVILEGE and it's always been there!
 
It really is the perfect demonstration of how performative so much allyship actually is. "We love our LGBTQ+ audience but here's a special with some transphobia and we've sacked a staff member for complaining cos we want this to do big numbers but oh shit the backlash is doing big numbers so we'd better back-pedal but not by editing or deleting the actual special no siree."

FUCK OFF.
Netflix are terrible for tokenism as well, as if that makes them progressive. I watched There’s Someone Inside Your House the other day and there was a non-binary character in it who literally said and did nothing, she had no storyline whatsoever. To me, including a character just to say you’re being representative and then giving them no reason to actually be there is insultingly transparent.
 
They didn't really gain it though, it's WHITE MALE PRIVILEGE and it's always been there!
Yeah, you're right. Once what was holding them back was removed, it reverted back to what always was underlying.
 
I mean I say 'they', but obviously have to accept 'us'.
 
A lot of "LGBT" organisations have long had problems - it was always a small L, a huge G, no B and a drag queen for T. There's a lot of territorialism and it is very male and very white. Factor in the way the UK has an inveterate desire to pull up the ladder and you have a shitshow.
 
Going back to the original topic here: where does this whole Terf thing come from and why has it become such a big thing now? I was having a conversation with two female friends and we somehow got into the subject of trans rights and one of them was being a bit igonarant and I called her out for it and was trying to explain what a terf is… anyway I realised that I was defending something that I didn’t know much about and therefore couldn’t meet her arguments.

There’s been a lot of talk about it here in general but I still, aside from the sports question, haven’t quite understood why (and can’t find any good sources) to why trans rights mean less rights for others. Anyone care to explain the issue or refer me to some neutral material on the subject?
 
I see that Rowling has a new children's book out for Christmas that's being advertised all over the place - I assume she'll get a very uncritical press tour without any difficult questions.
 
It's the same as pretty much any RIGHTS issue isn't it, in as much as there isnt a RIGHTS PIE, whereby someone else getting a fair slice means you get a smaller portion.
 
It's usually some shit about cis women being ERASED and SILENCED!11!!!1 plus they're obsessed with toilets for some reason.
The obsession (fed by Netflix and Dave Chappelle amongst many others) is with trans women's bodies generally isn't it? No wonder this feeds which bathroom people use.
 
Is it just that though or is there some deeper issues behind it since several, supposedly intelligent, feminisits have spoken against it… (I’m not questioning, I’m just asking)
 
I’ve never understood the bathroom issue either. If anything I think they should be more worried about us gays sharing the same bathrooms and locker rooms as the straight males and get to see them naked (in lockerrooms). :)
 
OK, other things I have seen them saying:

- that because trans women have grown up with male privilege they will never understand what it is really like to be a woman
- that cis lesbians are being abused for not wanting to have sex with someone with a penis (this is largely nonsense and seems to stem from a TINY minority of idiots on Twitter saying that it is transphobic to have genital preferences)
 
OK, other things I have seen them saying:

- that because trans women have grown up with male privilege they will never understand what it is really like to be a woman

This is what seems to be the most common argument and I find it ridiculous… but we live in times where a lot of people feel victimised and underprivileged, so I guess if someone is suddenly regarded as less privileged than you then you’ve lost your claim to all that and therefore you hate them. (See also: white working class vs immigrants)
 
My local council posted on Facebook the other week a picture of a pregnant woman and the message "we're looking to hear from pregnant people in the local area"

The outrage about them using the word "people" instead of "women" (despite them using a woman on the poster)! Honestly, you'd think they were advocating killing bunny rabbits or something. I hadn't even noticed before reading the comment section. It's a very weird obsession and is absolutely routed in transphobia and the absolute refusal to try to understand someone who's different to yourself.
 
I think there are some people who want to be hateful but are “liberal” so they can’t hate other groups. They’ve just chosen the socially acceptable (in their circle) group to hate
 
If we were able to stop defining womanhood by the pain men cause women, we'd be a lot further forward. But no, let's not talk about a serving police officer abusing his position to rape and murder a women, let's talk about toilets.
 
OK, other things I have seen them saying:

- that because trans women have grown up with male privilege they will never understand what it is really like to be a woman

This is particularly interesting - they bleat about this but then want trans children refused any kind of help. "Well, you were a MAN until you were (inset age)" Yes - because of you, you fucker! You're the one that campaigned against help and services for trans kids!!

GCs have tied themselves into the most unbelievable knots trying to justify their prejudices that no-one with the slightest interest in logic and cohesion of position could understand them.
 
Netflix are terrible for tokenism as well, as if that makes them progressive. I watched There’s Someone Inside Your House the other day and there was a non-binary character in it who literally said and did nothing, she had no storyline whatsoever. To me, including a character just to say you’re being representative and then giving them no reason to actually be there is insultingly transparent.
I noticed the same about the gay character - there was that video of him where he was beaten by the other dude and then he was barely in it/didn't have any lines until the end
right before he was killed. I actually thought he was the killer because he suddenly disappeared from all the plot lines.
 
I noticed the same about the gay character - there was that video of him where he was beaten by the other dude and then he was barely in it/didn't have any lines until the end
right before he was killed. I actually thought he was the killer because he suddenly disappeared from all the plot lines.
Yeah, it was tokenism without inclusion which doesn’t mean they’ve ‘represented’ a demographic at all, just shoved them in at the periphery and not trusted them to carry a storyline.
 
This is particularly interesting - they bleat about this but then want trans children refused any kind of help. "Well, you were a MAN until you were (inset age)" Yes - because of you, you fucker! You're the one that campaigned against help and services for trans kids!!

GCs have tied themselves into the most unbelievable knots trying to justify their prejudices that no-one with the slightest interest in logic and cohesion of position could understand them.
Have said many a time that they are a complete and utter bag of contradictions.

Like, if a trans women is feminine then she is a caricature of or is fetishising womanhood but if she dresses more muted or androgynous then she “isn’t even trying to look like a woman.”

just find it odd because it's not like every cis woman has the same experience anyway, is it?
This is particularly a problem in the UK because our mainstream broadsheet feminism doesn’t even attempt to be intersectional. All of the voices you hear are white, straight, middle class mothers, often approaching middle age - and they talk about their experiences as essentially representative. Unsurprisingly, as much as they bang on about “defending lesbians”, this is also the primary TERF demographic.

If we were able to stop defining womanhood by the pain men cause women, we'd be a lot further forward. But no, let's not talk about a serving police officer abusing his position to rape and murder a women, let's talk about toilets.
Notable friend of @Penelope Shon Faye’s amazing book on trans liberation (which I recommend to any cis people wanting to know more) touches on this - she basically says that these talking points are essentially means of keeping trans people in a closed-loop debate so nothing ever moves forward.

“I believe that forcing trans people to involve themselves in these closed-loop debates ad infinitum is itself a tactic of those who wish to oppress us.

Such debates are time-consuming, exhausting distractions from what we should be focusing on: the material ways in which we are oppressed. The author Toni Morrison once spoke about how precisely this tactic is employed by white people against people of colour. ‘The function, the very serious function of racism, is distraction,’ she told students at Portland State University in 1975. ‘ It keeps you from doing your work. It keeps you explaining, over and over again, your reason for being ... none of this is necessary. There will always be one more thing.’”

I am so fucking bored of it.
 
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I got the Shon Faye book a couple of weeks ago but haven't started it yet. I was going to take a trashy novel away for the weekend with me, but perhaps I ought to take that instead.
 
“I believe that forcing trans people to involve themselves in these closed-loop debates ad infinitum is itself a tactic of those who wish to oppress us.

Such debates are time-consuming, exhausting distractions from what we should be focusing on: the material ways in which we are oppressed. The author Toni Morrison once spoke about how precisely this tactic is employed by white people against people of colour. ‘The function, the very serious function of racism, is distraction,’ she told students at Portland State University in 1975. ‘ It keeps you from doing your work. It keeps you explaining, over and over again, your reason for being ... none of this is necessary. There will always be one more thing.’”

I am so fucking bored of it.

This seems a fair point of course, but (and as troublesome as it is, of course,) isn’t the fact that the issue is discussed much more often than just a couple of years ago in itself a sign of progress? No one in mainstream media talked about trans rights like they do now.
 
I think what we are seeing right now is a backlash to the progress. Trans people have come a long way in the last decade and a bit, but people who have been out for decades say that the current spotlight on trans people has made their life more difficult than 10-15 years ago.

Improved visibility is a double-edged sword. My family might be more aware of what a non-binary trans person is but the chances of that information having been framed negatively to them is also pretty high.
 
Then hopefully it’s only more of an ”initial” backlash due to the visibility, since it’s new and ”scary” to some at first, but that will decrease by time, if you know what I mean.
 
What's going on with this John Lewis ad?

I haven't seen it so can't really comment, but someone defended it on facebook so I googled it and some TERF called Judith at the Telegraph is spitting feathers about it

Here we go again!
 
What's going on with this John Lewis ad?

I haven't seen it so can't really comment, but someone defended it on facebook so I googled it and some TERF called Judith at the Telegraph is spitting feathers about it

Here we go again!
Something something boy wearing a dress something something woke agenda 🤷‍♂️
 
Judith from the Telegraph said "you're not allowed to comment without being labelled transphobic" and then went on to say something transphobic but I couldn't read it because paywall and no thank you
 

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