Joanne Rowling and other TERFs (1 Viewer)

In case you wondered, that on the off chance it wasn't mould...

 
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Either that or it's been stripped back to the stone wall for building/repair works - I'm trying to work out what's going on at the corner on the right hand side.

Hope it collapses on her.
 
Yeah it does sadly look like a Japanese type tree pattern on the wallpaper which just looks unfortunate on camera.

The only mould rot is in her brain.
 
www.bbc.co.uk

What does science tell us about boxing’s gender row?

Research is shedding light on different chromosomal make-ups and what advantages they may bring to sport.
www.bbc.co.uk

This article about the unknowns of the advantages for people with DSD in sports, is interesting.

What I find annoying is that there is never any mention of the fact that absolutely EVERYBODY has different qualities and strengths and weaknesses to their body. I am male, but I do not have the same body type as Shaquille O'Neal... I'm 5'9 not 7'1... should there be a height limit in basketball so that short people have the same opportunities?

Only if someone is intersex are their natural physical qualities called into question.
 
cwej said:
www.bbc.co.uk

What does science tell us about boxing’s gender row?

Research is shedding light on different chromosomal make-ups and what advantages they may bring to sport.
www.bbc.co.uk

This article about the unknowns of the advantages for people with DSD in sports, is interesting.

What I find annoying is that there is never any mention of the fact that absolutely EVERYBODY has different qualities and strengths and weaknesses to their body. I am male, but I do not have the same body type as Shaquille O'Neal... I'm 5'9 not 7'1... should there be a height limit in basketball so that short people have the same opportunities?

Only if someone is intersex are their natural physical qualities called into question.
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Respectfully, this is an argument brought up all the time, but I do think it is an entirely redundant point when sport has always been delineated by biological sex and not by your height or weight.

I’m going to pass on my thoughts here.

We had this issue in athletics some time ago and I do think the DSD issue is so complicated and so difficult. Aside from the physical debate, there began to be obvious cases of countries looking to recruit DSD athletes from a young age solely to win medals, which smacks of exploitation, such as rhe white coaches of Namibia coming up with a pair of black athletes who became the world’s best 400m runners out of nowhere at junior level. There was also the Rio 800m, won by Caster Semenya, where the entire podium was taken by DSD athletes- non DSD athletes couldn’t compete. The 400m had a runner suddenly become the fastest since East German doping out of nowhere, whilst her teammate took a 200m silver medal aged 18 in her first season and seemed likely to dominate. It was also noted that DSD also is far more prevalent in African nations, which means there would be a dominance there- albeit I’ve seen others counter balance that argument as racism.

For me, and for whatever it’s worth I realise people in here won’t necessarily agree, something needed to be done because, given that sport categories are delineated by biological sex, intersex athletes are always going to dominate the female category. Whilst we categorise sport in this way, I can’t see any other “solution” where everyone is happy- athletics’ ridiculous compromise about DSD athletes having to chemically alter their testosterone levels is fucking barbaric.

What’s disgusting about this discourse is that these athletes are following the rules, have done nothing wrong and that any perceived advantage is entirely natural. The TERF brigade’s language (“”he” will fight for a medal”, labelling them as cheats) is absolutely appalling, the fact we sit and speculate on someone’s private condition (sorry, might be the wrong word) which isn’t even public is even worse. Again, in athletics, there was sudden flux of people trying to “spot” DSD athletes any time anyone appeared- usually out of nowhere, often as junior athletes, and it became something of a witch hunt. Now the TERFs are involved, that will only get worse. The likes of Mara Yamauchi and Sharron Davies both have careers in the media and surely cannot be allowed to continue, given the inflammatory posts they’ve made this past week. Yamauchi was even retweeting people saying they had bought tickets with the sole purpose of disrupting the events. Fuck off. Despite that witch hunt, it is interesting that rhe athletics community embraced DSD athletes on the whole- Semenya is a hero and the likes of Christine Mboma and Francine Niyonsaba are not far behind her, but with the caveat that people did perceive the advantage as “unfair”.

My heart breaks for the women (cause they fucking are) boxers involved here and I am supporting them as much as anyone else here. I hope they win, but I fear for the reaction if and when they do. These athletes must be celebrated but also respected and protected, and I also worry that competing in their current category is going to put that in jeopardy.

But, finally, I maintain that something should be done. Potentially a third category could be created in events where DSD athletes would seem to have a physical advantage. Someone with me this week said “there won’t be enough entrants”, but that doesn’t seem to matter for the thinly populated fields and categories in the Paralympics (note this point is made solely to describe field sizes and I am not equating disability with anything here). For sports where such physical attributes aren’t important, do we really need separate events anyway?

I realise this post isn’t going to have everyone agreeing with it, but please understand this is a debate the sport I love and know like the back of my hand has had some time ago and, given my knowledge of that awful situation, I wanted to contribute. This is not about me playing devil’s advocate, which I was (perhaps justifiably) accused of recently, but something I feel I have a bit of historical knowledge on. Wherever you sit on this, please know, whatever my position, it comes from a place of love for the athletes involved.
 
(That reply also feels wrong here- haven’t we been debating this in another thread or is it lost in the Olympic daily ones? Anyway…)
 
An interesting read @Sheena!

Can I ask for some clarity on the supposed "recruitment" of DSD athletes? Is there actual proof of this happening? As in, are scouts actively going after intersex kids and training them up to be athletes? Could it not be that these kids are spotted/scouted organically and are noticed simply for their athletics prowess rather than their biological makeup?
 
Surely, unless you create subcategories for each and every biological difference, then you just have to accept that sport is fundamentally unfair, rather than an objective competition to find the "best".

Which is why subjective endeavours, such as middle aged women singing at each other, is the superior competitive activity.
 
Tisch said:
An interesting read @Sheena!

Can I ask for some clarity on the supposed "recruitment" of DSD athletes? Is there actual proof of this happening? As in, are scouts actively going after intersex kids and training them up to be athletes? Could it not be that these kids are spotted/scouted organically and are noticed simply for their athletics prowess rather than their biological makeup?
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Of course it’s speculation, but it seems rather surprising that, in the case I mentioned, one coach could accidentally stumble across two DSD athletes, both of whom come from different regions, at the same time and manage to train them to be world beating in basically a season.
 
ZenGiraffe said:
Surely, unless you create subcategories for each and every biological difference, then you just have to accept that sport is fundamentally unfair, rather than an objective competition to find the "best".
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Again, that entirely negates the point I made earlier- that sport categories are delineated only by biological sex. If we change that, then biological women won’t stand a chance against biological men. Is that ok? Maybe people think it is. I don’t.

There is also no issue with the subcategories in Paralympic sport, again, as I said earlier.
 
Lucille said:
Also in the specific case of boxing there’s already weight classes to minimise physical advantages.
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Agreed. I also don’t know enough about boxing to be able to know/ understand the situation properly.
 
Sheena said:
Of course it’s speculation, but it seems rather surprising that, in the case I mentioned, one coach could accidentally stumble across two DSD athletes, both of whom come from different regions, at the same time and manage to train them to be world beating in basically a season.
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But you could?

If you're an athletic scout looking for female athletes and you go to a school, you're going to go after the girls that win all the races, it may turn out later down the line that she is intersex with a biological advantage. That's different to purposefully actively seeking out intersex children to "cheat" the system.

We'll never know what happens behind the scenes so it's one of those arguments that will always full onto whatever prejudice you inherently have. The Sharrons and Judys of the world will argue the point that these people are actively sought out and exploited, the wokey left will argue that it's all a coincidence and let's leave them alone. We will never know the actual actual truth of how these people came to be on the running track will we? So the argument continues without one side ever convincing the other.

I know next to nothing about how an athlete is scouted and curated, nor about intersex or chromosomal conditions so it's absolutely not a debate I can partake in. I do find it all very surface level interesting though, and anyone who purposefully sets out to dehumanise or hurt someone's feelings can get in the big TERFy bin with Joanne and her cronies frankly.
 
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Lucille said:
Also in the specific case of boxing there’s already weight classes to minimise physical advantages.
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Yes, but it’s a difficult one as it’s not conclusive how much of a power advantage these women receive due to their body mechanics. Men and women often fall within the same weight categories but obviously don’t compete against each other. Perhaps a separate category is most sensible but then there’s a can of worms waiting to be opened if more info down the line proves there is no specific advantage. I do side with the athletes being subjected to the scrutiny here to be honest but understand why the other competitors would want more clarity especially if they’re being punched in the face.

Khelif has never won by knockout and lost 9 times so it seems unlikely in her case that it’s a huge advantage otherwise she may just not be a very good boxer.

In terms of separate categories Davies etc showed their hypocrisy when open categories were offered in swimming going from a fair sport to “mediocrity shouldn’t be rewarded” stance i.e being a cunt.
 
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Tisch said:
But you could?

If you're an athletic scout looking for female athletes and you go to a school, you're going to go after the girls that win all the races, it may turn out later down the line that she is intersex with a biological advantage. That's different to purposefully actively seeking out intersex children to "cheat" the system.

We'll never know what happens behind the scenes so it's one of those arguments that will always full onto whatever prejudice you inherently have. The Sharrons and Judys of the world will argue the point that these people are actively sought out and exploited, the wokey left will argue that it's all a coincidence and let's leave them alone. We will never know the actual actual truth of how these people came to be on the running track will we? So the argument continues without one side ever convincing the other.

I know next to nothing about how an athlete is scouted and curated, nor about intersex or chromosomal conditions so it's absolutely not a debate I can partake in. I do find it all very surface level interesting though, and anyone who purposefully sets out to dehumanise or hurt someone's feelings can get in the big TERFy bin with Joanne and her cronies frankly.
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I agree for the most part. None of us know can ever know and perhaps my post was heavy handed, though I did say “smacks of exploitation”.


What I don’t agree with, though, is that it comes down to “TERF” vs “Woke” on this point, though. We’re in a world where coaches and countries do anything to win, including giving athletes huge amounts of steroids, often under their age of consent. Even if you don’t believe such practices are happening yet, they certainly will do.

Though, to be honest, I think we’re both coming at the same point from different angles. Protect these athletes and put TERFy cunts in the bin.
 
i think this is the only issue where the question of 'TERF' vs 'Woke' is more complex for all the reasons you've laid out. The problem is though, that the TERFs jump on it even those who have basically no interest in sport otherwise as far as we can tell (JK mostly) and so it fuels the fire of TERF vs Woke even though it shouldn't.
 
she's taking a really long SHIT and she left her PHONE in the FUNGI CAVE! unfortunate! but she'll be back! there are people to punch down to and that's her main motivation for forcing out this stubborn shit and returning to the realm of the NORMAL, WELL ADJUSTED and TERMINALLY ONLINE!
 
Art Decade said:


And what a lovely two weeks it was.
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And yet she remains completely oblivious that spending years spouting out an endless series of bigoted tweets requires far more time and effort than simply not doing that.
 
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