Labour: The Sir Keir Starmer years

Sir Keir's won - are you happy with this outcome?


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Penelope

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So Labour in London being utter tossers


Meanwhile they are busy forming a coalition with the Tories in Stockport despite neither being the largest party

So Labour forming a coalition with the Tories in Stockport is bad, but not joining a Tory-Lib Dem-Green one in London is also bad too? :D

I can see the argument for one or the other being bad (I'd go with Stockport), but you kind of have to PICK ONE
 

Alex

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So Labour forming a coalition with the Tories in Stockport is bad, but not joining a Tory-Lib Dem-Green one in London is also bad too? :D

I can see the argument for one or the other being bad (I'd go with Stockport), but you kind of have to PICK ONE
I was more trying to highlight the hypocrisy.
Don’t go slagging off other parties for forming “coalitions” with a party if you are doing it as well
 

Indie

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It's entirely possible for differences based on local issues to decide whether people should collaborate or not.

Mind you, joining with the Tories in Stockport is all kinds of stupid.
 

octophone

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Can we stick a fork in this absolute embarrassment? Honestly, absolutely done. He's now a sentient chicken burger with all the character and flavour that entails.
 
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Suedey

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Keir is RED AND FUMING but mostly red:

What point is he actually making? Ugh honestly this is the worst. There has been no credible opposition in this country for over 5 years now. Embarrassing.
 

Penelope

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Ken Loach EXPELLED for socialism/being a Corbynista. fuck Sir Keir!
Expelled for being a pretty unambiguous anti-semite. There are plenty of socialists and Corbynistas who are still in the party.

(It's really not even a serious debate - if anyone can read about the Ken Loach Perdition affair and come out of it not seeing really blatant anti-semitism, they've got issues.)
 

bypass

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I fucking weep...Starmer in the news today for supporting the exclusion of trans women from women only spaces in "some circumstances".

He's so afraid of pissing too much of the right of the left off he can't even commit to being a BIGOT. :goodgrief: x 1000
 

funky

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Surely that’s misquoted… colour me naive but the leader of a left wing party cannot surely be saying stuff like that? Like anyone shouldn’t obviously, but you expect it from certain places… ffs
 

Penelope

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The article also restates that Labour backs reforming the Gender Recognition Act to support self-ID. Even presented in the most flagrant way by the Independent, it's a rebuff of what Rosie Duffield wants.
 

octophone

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Just SAY SOMETHING, Starmer. Speak. Tell us your position on something, fucking ANYTHING! He's spitting splinters at this point. A fucking disgrace.
 

Kratz

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As much as I really love several MPs in the party, I'd really struggle to vote for Labour right now with Starmer at the head.

I’d be interested to know who former / one-time Labour voters would look to instead? I guess it depends on geography to an extent.
 

Gangsta Nancy Lam

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I feel like with all the shit hitting the fan, now would be a great time for Labour to bring the fight to the Tories but instead they're trying to alienate their own membership again for some reason... It was exactly the same when Labour smashed those metro mayor elections and decided to respond by briefing against the deputy leader. I can't believe this guy was the UNITY CANDIDATE. He's just obsessed with picking silly little fights with his own party. EMBARRASSING.

Just SAY SOMETHING, Starmer. Speak. Tell us your position on something, fucking ANYTHING! He's spitting splinters at this point. A fucking disgrace.

Be careful what you wish for. He's now released a 14,000 word essay on his vision for the future :D
 
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I’d be interested to know who former / one-time Labour voters would look to instead? I guess it depends on geography to an extent.

I'd love to vote Green, but instead of SEIZING THE OPPORTUNITY and running with the goodwill handed to them on a platter at present...they seem to have descended into infighting as seems to be the norm for our political parties.

I really don't know how I'd vote in a general election if called at present. I'm normally Labour as no-brainer.
I'd really quite like the Labour left to splinter off and develop a new party tbh :D
 

Loufoque

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The only hope to get rid of the horrible, corrupt far-right regime - as far as I can see - is to form a progressive alliance (Lab-Lib-SNP-Green+) and make a broad commitment to NHS and social care, rapprochement with Europe, and solving the housing and climate crises. I don't know why these factions can't be bound by a shared conviction: that the Tories must be locked out of power for a generation.
 

octophone

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Labour's problem seems to be that Starmer is too scared of losing votes to do anything that could WIN votes.

When you're 2-1 down at half time, you don't spend the 2nd half defending because losing by only 1 goal would be a great result in the circumstances. To me, that's what Starmer is doing. He's happy to lose as long as they don't lose by more than they did under Corbyn in '19.

The daft prick.
 

Kratz

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The only hope to get rid of the horrible, corrupt far-right regime - as far as I can see - is to form a progressive alliance (Lab-Lib-SNP-Green+) and make a broad commitment to NHS and social care, rapprochement with Europe, and solving the housing and climate crises. I don't know why these factions can't be bound by a shared conviction: that the Tories must be locked out of power for a generation.
I think Labour may need to admit (at least to itself, if not already done) that it cannot win a majority for the foreseeable future barring a minor electoral miracle. They are almost non-existent in Scotland (in seats) and miles behind the Conservatives in England (in seats and in vote share). A pragmatic ‘foot in the door’ approach would be best for now.

I don’t think you will see parties standing down for each other in any great way (it happened a little bit in 2019) but they may be able to cobble together a government if the Conservatives slid backwards significantly (of which there is no guarantee). They really are quite resilient it seems but everything has a limit and the cost of living may be it.
 
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RJN

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Wearing my lovely non-partisan hat these days, that would seem to be the most pragmatic route for Labour. I think Labour may need to admit (at least to itself, if not already done) that it cannot win a majority for the foreseeable future barring a minor electoral miracle. They are almost non-existent in Scotland (in seats) and miles behind the Conservatives in England (in seats and in vote share). A pragmatic ‘foot in the door’ approach would be best for now.

I don’t think you will see parties standing down for each other in any great way (it happened a little bit in 2019) but they may be able to cobble together a government if the Conservatives slid backwards significantly (of which there is no guarantee). They really are quite resilient it seems but everything has a limit and the cost of living may be it.
Last week, the Liberals in Canada got an almost identical vote share to what Labour got in 2019 and even less seats. They're going to form a government with the other left wing parties, so that could be a model
 

Penelope

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The only hope to get rid of the horrible, corrupt far-right regime - as far as I can see - is to form a progressive alliance (Lab-Lib-SNP-Green+) and make a broad commitment to NHS and social care, rapprochement with Europe, and solving the housing and climate crises. I don't know why these factions can't be bound by a shared conviction: that the Tories must be locked out of power for a generation.
Wearing my lovely non-partisan hat these days, that would seem to be the most pragmatic route for Labour. I think Labour may need to admit (at least to itself, if not already done) that it cannot win a majority for the foreseeable future barring a minor electoral miracle. They are almost non-existent in Scotland (in seats) and miles behind the Conservatives in England (in seats and in vote share). A pragmatic ‘foot in the door’ approach would be best for now.

I don’t think you will see parties standing down for each other in any great way (it happened a little bit in 2019) but they may be able to cobble together a government if the Conservatives slid backwards significantly (of which there is no guarantee). They really are quite resilient it seems but everything has a limit and the cost of living may be it.
It won't happen formally (the Lib Dems have already committed to running a candidate in every seat this time around) but these things never really particularly work the way they're envisaged when they're done as formal 'we've all agreed this between ourselves and we've put up one candidate for you to vote for' pacts in any case. Voters are far more intelligent than they're usually given credit though - plenty know which party to vote for if their priority is getting rid of the Tories.

My central guess for how things will play out next time is a big reduction in the Tory majority, but even though Labour lost by a landslide last time, the Tories didn't really win by one. It doesn't actually take that much more past that if the Tories lose their majority to end up in a situation where Labour could be on about 240-250 seats and basically the only viable governing party, just because the Tories really don't have many potential allies left. (Obviously this would be incredibly funny and the papers would go absolutely *hogshit* if this played out)
 

Penelope

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Last week, the Liberals in Canada got an almost identical vote share to what Labour got in 2019 and even less seats. They're going to form a government with the other left wing parties, so that could be a model
Yes, although sadly the First Past the Post system advantages the parties the other way around in Canada - the Tories over there rack up absolutely massive majorities in seats in Alberta and the Prairies where voters despise the Liberals, in a similar way to how Labour do in the cities over here, so can get more votes than the Liberals and end up not being the biggest party (and need to get far more as a result)
 
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RJN

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Yes, although sadly the First Past the Post system advantages the parties the other way around in Canada - the Tories over there rack up absolutely massive majorities in seats in Alberta and the Prairies where voters despise the Liberals, in a similar way to how Labour do in the cities over here, so can get more votes than the Liberals and end up not being the biggest party (and need to get far more as a result)
True. I was happy to see that the Liberals picked up a few seats in Alberta. Although that might just be Canada following America’s extreme rural/urban divide
 

funky

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The only hope to get rid of the horrible, corrupt far-right regime - as far as I can see - is to form a progressive alliance (Lab-Lib-SNP-Green+) and make a broad commitment to NHS and social care, rapprochement with Europe, and solving the housing and climate crises. I don't know why these factions can't be bound by a shared conviction: that the Tories must be locked out of power for a generation.

Been saying this for a while now. Unfortunately we’re in an era where politics is about division and personal principals, not compromise for the common good. Each country is stuck with whichever side has the least number of parties. So we get the right. Forever, it feels like.

Labour is so desperate to win back some of the middle class that it has alienated the young vote - it feels as old establishment as the Tories lately, I can’t see why anyone under 30 would vote for them.

Lib Dems / Green coalition with a superstar leader would be really interesting. Bit of momentum and the right message and it could be good…
 

Jark

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Wearing my lovely non-partisan hat these days, that would seem to be the most pragmatic route for Labour. I think Labour may need to admit (at least to itself, if not already done) that it cannot win a majority for the foreseeable future barring a minor electoral miracle. They are almost non-existent in Scotland (in seats) and miles behind the Conservatives in England (in seats and in vote share). A pragmatic ‘foot in the door’ approach would be best for now.

I don’t think you will see parties standing down for each other in any great way (it happened a little bit in 2019) but they may be able to cobble together a government if the Conservatives slid backwards significantly (of which there is no guarantee). They really are quite resilient it seems but everything has a limit and the cost of living may be it.
when did you stop aligning with the Tories, and why? just out of interest!
 
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Alex

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Labour is so desperate to win back some of the middle class that it has alienated the young vote - it feels as old establishment as the Tories lately, I can’t see why anyone under 30 would vote for them.

Lib Dems / Green coalition with a superstar leader would be really interesting. Bit of momentum and the right message and it could be good…
The next election at least the Lib Dems and Greens should do better with disillusioned Tories as we won’t have a Labour leader that they find utterly repellant so feel a vote is worth the risk.
 

Penelope

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The next election at least the Lib Dems and Greens should do better with disillusioned Tories as we won’t have a Labour leader that they find utterly repellant so feel a vote is worth the risk.
By far one of the most key factors for how much the Lib Dems can attract support in target seats they're trying to get off the Tories (which is the case for all but one of the Lib Dems' target seats at the next election!) - and something Ed Davey more or less recognises.
 

Alex

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By far one of the most key factors for how much the Lib Dems can attract support in target seats - and something Ed Davey more or less recognises.
I do hope that Starmer goes for non aggression in next election like Blair/Ashdown. (That is my understanding of what happened anyway I may be wrong !}
There’s so many seats down south the lib dems are so close. Knocking out Raab would be amazing for example Labour focus on midlands and north, most of London and we are sorted.
 

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