Moopyvision: All Time National Final Favourites Rate - nominate NOW (closes 14th Jan)

ButterTart

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I’ve sought advice on how the voting should work from esteemed Europaths @Suomi and @Pingu so I thought I’d throw it open to everyone else.

Instead of songs being knocked out, I want the scores from each heat to determine the final placing of the songs, with maybe one extra rate for the top 100.

How would you most like to rate the songs?

Allocate Eurovision-style points to a set number of songs per heat (Suomi’s suggestion)

Rate all of the songs in each heat (Pingu’s suggestion)

Fuck it all off and just award the win to Cider Hill (My suggestion)

I think option 1 is better for engagement, option 2 will give a more valid result, and option 3 is just expediting the inevitable.

Thoughts?
 

ZenGiraffe

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There are too many songs, and a Eurovision style scoring system would make the mid table look especially weird. I would agree with @Pingu that it should be ratings. Also makes heats more comparable to each other as well, if say the best song in one heat would normally not even make your top 10 in another.
 

Pingu

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I think both work but if you rate all the songs in each heat, there then isn’t a need for a final top 100 vote as you’ve already got one in ranking order right there as each song has already independently been rated.

If you did Eurovision-style voting in each heat (or even just chose a set number of qualifiers like Ag did) then that’s just as valid but you then would need to do a final rate with the shortlisted songs as you won’t have an overall ranking.

So basically it boils down to how long you want to drag it out!
 

ZenGiraffe

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I think both work but if you rate all the songs in each heat, there then isn’t a need for a final top 100 vote as you’ve already got one in ranking order right there as each song has already independently been rated.

If you did Eurovision-style voting in each heat (or even just chose a set number of qualifiers like Ag did) then that’s just as valid but you then would need to do a final rate with the shortlisted songs as you won’t have an overall ranking.

So basically it boils down to how long you want to drag it out!
The final top 100 might need tie breaking, and might have a wider audience, so I don't think it's a waste of time to have a second pass at it. Keep rankings in PMs so the result isn't a forgone conclusion to anyone but Butters
 

Pingu

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I think if you’re going to have a final vote on the top 100 (or whatever shortlist we end up with after the viewing parties) then we may as well just do an ESC style vote or a “choose 10 qualifiers” from each batch to get to that. It worked well for the ESC 100 last year.

The rate-for-every-viewing idea was just a way of streamlining the process really.
 

ButterTart

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I think if you’re going to have a final vote on the top 100 (or whatever shortlist we end up with after the viewing parties) then we may as well just do an ESC style vote or a “choose 10 qualifiers” from each batch to get to that. It worked well for the ESC 100 last year.

The rate-for-every-viewing idea was just a way of streamlining the process really.
The rating everything idea is the one I'm slightly leaning towards just because it's feasible that somebody could have 40 songs they like in one heat but only 5 in another but a set amount of scores to dish out for both, which might mean songs which would otherwise have got nothing from that poster end up getting points just because of the heat they're in.
 

Suomi

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My opinion is that at this stage it’s better to just get the 100 favourites by asking people to make Sophie’s Choices and allocate points. You just need to make sure that the heats are evenly balanced by decade and how well known they are, with the obvious big-hitters not all in one.

Although I didn’t realise the idea was to get a full ranking of every song suggested, so if that’s the goal then rating them all is obviously fairer, but also potentially quite long and boring. I also feel like in that scenario 7/10 songs fare better than those that are loved by small but significant numbers.
 

Pingu

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My opinion is that at this stage it’s better to just get the 100 favourites by asking people to make Sophie’s Choices and allocate points. You just need to make sure that the heats are evenly balanced by decade and how well known they are, with the obvious big-hitters not all in one.

Although I didn’t realise the idea was to get a full ranking of every song suggested, so if that’s the goal then rating them all is obviously fairer, but also potentially quite long and boring. I also feel like in that scenario 7/10 songs fare better than those that are loved by small but significant numbers.
I kind of agree about just getting a shortlist by getting people to choose if we're going to end up doing a final rate anyway (which is absolutely right as you get the richness of data then). I don't know how many songs you've got on your shortlist @ButterTart but if you do ten evenly spread heats with 30 songs each and have 12 going through from each one then that's still quite lot for people to choose from in the final list.
 

Suomi

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@ButterTart just finished the logo hope u like xxx

D4D86368-EF10-4E8C-9AA0-DFF45525BA2E.jpeg
 

Haiku

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Depending on how many nominations there are, maybe do 9 heats and I would say rate all of the songs in each heat with the top 10 of each heat going through to the Top 100 and the 11th-13th placers going to a Second Chance Round?

In the Second Round, we can use ESC-style voting on the 27 acts that reached this stage and the 10 songs with the highest scores will complete the Final 100.

For when we reach the Top 100, I would go with @Penelope 's idea but rating could work too (in life, sometimes you just have to make those difficult choices :( )
 

Haiku

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@ButterTart if we do it by ratings, I can probably compile on Excel the placements of the songs that finished outside the top 100 (or 117 if you go with my Second Chance Round idea :D ) once the heats are done if that helps you.
 

ButterTart

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First viewing party this Sunday at 7pm. I’m very proud of some bits of playlisting here, and we’re coming straight out of the gate with some stone cold BANGERS.

I’m still accepting nominations until tomorrow night, so if you have a sudden flush of inspiration be sure to tell me.
 

ButterTart

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Additional idea: split them all into different heats then rate them as normal as it goes along. At the end, once all the heats are finished and the complete list is out, have the chance to award 25, 20, 18, 17, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12 and 11 to your top ten, as with the Eurovision Hot 100.
Okay, this seems like a great idea. So the heats would be a straight 1-10 rate at first?
 

Pingu

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Okay, this seems like a great idea. So the heats would be a straight 1-10 rate at first?
Oh yes I forgot that’s how we did the top 100, that was fun.

When we did that, the heats were just “Pick X qualifiers” - I think I’d favour that as I do wonder whether a 1-10 rate might make the final bunch kind of Sweden-heavy due to the higher averages a lot of the more polished ones might get?

Whereas if you have to actually discriminate and make a choice we might get some more colourful choices through… possibly… might not make much difference.
 

ButterTart

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Oh yes I forgot that’s how we did the top 100, that was fun.

When we did that, the heats were just “Pick X qualifiers” - I think I’d favour that as I do wonder whether a 1-10 rate might make the final bunch kind of Sweden-heavy due to the higher averages a lot of the more polished ones might get?

Whereas if you have to actually discriminate and make a choice we might get some more colourful choices through… possibly… might not make much difference.
The reason I’m favouring a rate is that all songs get equal footing and they aren’t being judged in terms of the heat they’re in. I think the simplest idea is to get everyone to rate 1-10 in the heats, then allocate their higher points once the full list is available.
I feel like this is straightforward, there’s no need for an additional rate for the top 100, and people still get the chance to reward their absolute favourites and don’t have to make a Sophie’s choice when their top 3 of all time end up in the same heat.
 

Pingu

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The reason I’m favouring a rate is that all songs get equal footing and they aren’t being judged in terms of the heat they’re in. I think the simplest idea is to get everyone to rate 1-10 in the heats, then allocate their higher points once the full list is available.
I feel like this is straightforward, there’s no need for an additional rate for the top 100, and people still get the chance to reward their absolute favourites and don’t have to make a Sophie’s choice when their top 3 of all time end up in the same heat.
This is excellent and I wholeheartedly endorse this idea.
 

ButterTart

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I love it when we can all agree so easily.

*Chair spins, revealing a monocled @Suomi stroking his pet rock python, his eyes gleaming with murderous intent. ‘All agree do we, Mr Tart? We’ll soon see about that’*
 

Pingu

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Oh HANG ON…

What to do about incomplete rates? Because presumably not everyone will send in a rate every week after each viewing sesh…

I’m possibly back to favouring the “nominate 12 qualifiers” way… or a big enough number that’s it’s not a Sophie’s Choice and I’m sure your expert playlisting will avoid any one heat being too stacked. :)
 

ZenGiraffe

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Oh HANG ON…

What to do about incomplete rates? Because presumably not everyone will send in a rate every week after each viewing sesh…

I’m possibly back to favouring the “nominate 12 qualifiers” way… or a big enough number that’s it’s not a Sophie’s Choice and I’m sure your expert playlisting will avoid any one heat being too stacked. :)
Just make a ?? equal to a 05. It isn't overly punishing or rewarding, but it means that things can't be averaged into a weird place.
 

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