The overtourism problem in Europe (1 Viewer)

[Jark]

ie. potentially one of the biggest issues facing Europe today.

Was This the Summer European Tourism Reached a Breaking Point?

Overwhelmed destinations made high-season visitors the targets of a major tourism backlash. Heat waves and fires only added to the pressure.

www.nytimes.com

the last few summers post covid have seen an explosion in tourist travel to beyond pre-covid levels - places like Venice (population 260k, annual tourism 20m), Amsterdam (920k, tourists 23m), Santorini (15k, tourists 3.5m) can't handle it anymore. in Barcelona there have been protests against tourists and the city has banned all tourist rentals from 2028.

if that seems an extreme measure - how else to deal with this problem? locals across Greece, Italy, Spain are having their towns and cities taken over by day trippers. eventually these locals will get fed up and leave and some of these places will become ghost towns that just exist for cruise ships to dump tourists onto. what's the solution?

very curious to hear people's thoughts on this.

 

[Jark]

I think one obvious and very pressing measure is that the numbers of cruise ships needs to be less than 10% of the current. dumping up to 10k people onto a tiny island or city for the day and then picking them up again can't go on and that's before even considering the massive impact on the climate.

and then low-cost, pan-continental air travel probably needs to come to an end. flying return for 500 quid or less (sometimes a lot less) from Europe to NYC means limitless americans can come to europe and do the whole tour (and vice versa) which is putting so much pressure on these places.

 

[ZenGiraffe]

and then low-cost, pan-continental air travel probably needs to come to an end. flying return for 500 quid or less (sometimes a lot less) from Europe to NYC means limitless americans can come to europe and do the whole tour (and vice versa) which is putting so much pressure on these places.

I disagree on a fundamentally ideological level with this. Travel should never be something just for the rich, and solutions to both air related climate issues and over tourism shouldn't be to make it something only the rich do.

 

[ZenGiraffe]

Cruise ships however can fuck off, they are clearly BAD SEEDS ON THIS EARTH

 

[big ron]

Honestly, fuck cruise ships. Disgusting, polluting things.

Aside from that, a lot of this stems from the rise in Airbnb - people buying up properties to let out places huge strain on the local housing market, driving prices up for rentals/buyers, making them unaffordable and causing serious social friction.

In Ibiza at the moment there is a tent city that has developed on wasteland full of nurses, police as well as workers in the tourism industry.

From my experience of living in tourist-reliant places, most locals accepted the payoff between tourism and jobs/economic benefits until this sort of thing became an issue.

 

[Rowan Tree 🌳]

BAN CRUISE SHIPS

 

[Jark]

I disagree on a fundamentally ideological level with this. Travel should never be something just for the rich, and solutions to both air related climate issues and over tourism shouldn't be to make it something only the rich do.

but as long as it's cheap people will fly excessively. it's hard enough persuading people to take a train within Europe when low cost flights exist. it's not about making air travel something only for the rich - but taking a return flight for leisure reasons shouldn't be something anyone is doing every two months.

 

[ZenGiraffe]

but as long as it's cheap people will fly excessively. it's hard enough persuading people to take a train within Europe when low cost flights exist. it's not about making air travel something only for the rich - but taking a return flight for leisure reasons shouldn't be something anyone is doing every two months.

How could you police that in any other way than cost though?

 

[Indie]

I live in a tourist city which very noticeably swells in the summer, school holidays and Christmas. I am absolutely fine with it (although I admit, not everyone is). It keeps businesses alive, museums operational and stops high streets from dying. It's easy enough to forget that many high streets in some areas are completely dead.

It is not to the same scale as the likes of Venice, though.

I'm along the same lines as big ron here. The biggest problem is short term rentals causing 'indigenous' communities to fall apart, driving up house prices, reducing community and handing it all over to tourists. I think more and more places across Europe will come up with solutions to ban Airbnb style properties, and frankly, they should.

 

[dmlaw]

If they want fewer tourists, they need to make their cities and towns less nice. Stockport, for example, has no problem with overtourism because it’s a wretched hole.

 

[octophone]

Ask anyone who lives in Edinburgh about this. Everything that gets done is for "the festival" and for tourism and the actual residents can fuck off. I know a couple of people who now consider the centre of Edinburgh uninhabitable and moved to the outskirts for quality of life.

 

[big ron]

If they want fewer tourists, they need to make their cities and towns less nice. Stockport, for example, has no problem with overtourism because it’s a wretched hole.

Stockport, so shit it's tag line is "Stockport isn't shit"

 

[big ron]

but as long as it's cheap people will fly excessively. it's hard enough persuading people to take a train within Europe when low cost flights exist. it's not about making air travel something only for the rich - but taking a return flight for leisure reasons shouldn't be something anyone is doing every two months.

Surely thats an education thing though, and a job for governments to incentivise alternatives.

 

[Soldi]

I disagree on a fundamentally ideological level with this. Travel should never be something just for the rich, and solutions to both air related climate issues and over tourism shouldn't be to make it something only the rich do.

Yes, how DARE working class people have a well earned week away in Fuengirola.

 

[win_the_game]

Ask anyone who lives in Edinburgh about this. Everything that gets done is for "the festival" and for tourism and the actual residents can fuck off. I know a couple of people who now consider the centre of Edinburgh uninhabitable and moved to the outskirts for quality of life.

This. I didn’t venture into the city once in August. Prices across the leisure and hospitality sector increase to fleece as much money out of people as they can, the historic city layout and transport infrastructure can’t cope with the sheer numbers and pretty much every council service is prioritised to look after the festival areas.

It was always an annual irritation each August but over the last decade or so tourism has become an all-year round affair with no off-season.

 

[GNL]

If they want fewer tourists, they need to make their cities and towns less nice. Stockport, for example, has no problem with overtourism because it’s a wretched hole.

Paris has tried this and all they've achieved is causing some Japanese people to have a mental breakdown.

 

[Marina Salty]

I think it drives the prices in everything up, even taxation, tiktok is full of americans praising how they don't have to pay on our hospitals which frankly makes me mad.

 

[KindaCool]

I think the onus is on tourists more than the government. If they knew how to behave themselves and calm the fuck down, the issue would be much less severe. Sports tourists are THE WORST. They drink, brawl and yell the most. And they bring their cringey sport-cult with them.

 

[KindaCool]

I literally started planning my first trip to Europe just this morning, so this thread is timely lol

 

[jyxz]

Paris has tried this and all they've achieved is causing some Japanese people to have a mental breakdown.

That wiki is wild!

 

[funky]

Another symptom of an over populated earth. The next generations are going to have a wonderful time aren't they?

Spending 3 grand to squeeze into a tiny space on the beach, while fully masked to avoid the 13 different plagues that are circulating at any one time.

Cheers!

 

[Dark Carnival]

Paris has tried this and all they've achieved is causing some Japanese people to have a mental breakdown.

DESERVED

 

[dUb]

Another symptom of an over populated earth. The next generations are going to have a wonderful time aren't they?

Spending 3 grand to squeeze into a tiny space on the beach, while fully masked to avoid the 13 different plagues that are circulating at any one time.

Cheers!

Log out of funky’s account please Pingu

 

[big ron]

Another symptom of an over populated earth. The next generations are going to have a wonderful time aren't they?

Spending 3 grand to squeeze into a tiny space on the beach, while fully masked to avoid the 13 different plagues that are circulating at any one time.

Cheers!

Strong boomer energy in this post

 

[Soldi]

old man funky baffled by beach

 

[Jark]

I think the onus is on tourists more than the government. If they knew how to behave themselves and calm the fuck down, the issue would be much less severe.

girl what the fuck. if the onus is on tourists absolutely nothing will change. any measures need to come (largely) from local and national government.

 

[Dark Carnival]

Imagine asking Americans to calm down

 

[Joseph]

People screamed for YEARS that dumb Americans never left their own country to see the world and now that we have it’s STAY THE FUCK HOME.

Much like a plague, you let us out of the box

 

[ZenGiraffe]

Maybe we should just get rid of Americans full stop?

 

[Dark Carnival]

Loudest tourists:
American
British
Spanish

 

[KindaCool]

girl what the fuck. if the onus is on tourists absolutely nothing will change. any measures need to come (largely) from local and national government.

Yes but I'm saying if tourists knew how to behave themselves, local govts wouldn't even have a problem to solve in the first place (or at least as BIG of a problem).

 

[dmlaw]

I don’t think that tourist behaviour helps all that much. If there’s a stereotypically polite and well-mannered nationality then it’s the Japanese, but they are still very annoying when there’s a group of seventy of them between you and somewhere that you want to go.

 

[AGinAg (39)]

I've never really noticed Americans on holiday before, but I did when I went to Rome. A truly fascinating species, in that they still live their lives according to Manifest Destiny and an apparent inbuilt belief in American exceptionalism.

Now Rome, that's a city that gave up on any pretence of being anything except a tourist city. As a tourist it was all the better for it. Hard to believe people live there and do any work that isn't tourism.

 

[Jocasta Clun]

I grew up in tourist towns and it was a GENERALLY REVOLTING EXPERIENCE so I always go on holiday to the MIDDLE OF NOWHERE

 

[Jark]

Now Rome, that's a city that gave up on any pretence of being anything except a tourist city. As a tourist it was all the better for it. Hard to believe people live there and do any work that isn't tourism.

I disagree totally but the fact that you say this illustrates a really interesting point - tourists tend to congregate in a small number of tourist trap areas. in Rome it's the colisseum, vatican and similar spots. in Amsterdam it's the red light district. they don't leave those zones to see the other parts. and the sheer numbers of them in those spots makes them public enemy number one to locals.

I had a fabulous day being shown around by my friend from Rome, exploring various (fairly central) neighbourhoods, all of which were busy with locals and very light on tourists. it's just a case of segregation and a lack of imagination. in a huge city like Rome especially, why not spread the tourists out? incentivise them to visit lesser known museums and parts of town? a shame that you didn't see a local side of Rome but it's very much there.

 

[AGinAg (39)]

I disagree totally but the fact that you say this illustrates a really interesting point - tourists tend to congregate in a small number of tourist trap areas. in Rome it's the colisseum, vatican and similar spots. in Amsterdam it's the red light district. they don't leave those zones to see the other parts. and the sheer numbers of them in those spots makes them public enemy number one to locals.

I had a fabulous day being shown around by my friend from Rome, exploring various (fairly central) neighbourhoods, all of which were busy with locals and very light on tourists. it's just a case of segregation and a lack of imagination. in a huge city like Rome especially, why not spread the tourists out? incentivise them to visit lesser known museums and parts of town? a shame that you didn't see a local side of Rome but it's very much there.

I hope you recover from losing your ability to capitalise.

 

[lolly]

I didn't find Rome that touristy at all, outside the obvious traps. It still felt like a fully functioning city- designed for all those who live and work there - just one that attracts a lot of tourists.

Florence was worse. And Venice another scale totally. You may as well be walking around Disneyland.

 

[AGinAg (39)]

Well of course people live and work there. But even when we went off course, there was still a flurry of tourist focused stuff. To be fair we didn't stray that far over 6 days.

 

[Jark]

I hope you recover from losing your ability to capitalise.

and I hope you learn how to engage without being a cunt but it's certainly a long shot

 

[funky]

Y'all missing the MAIN point of the problem and that's the false economy placed on rental and mortgage prices in tourism cities and areas with resort communities. It's quite absurd that Johnny Bulldog and his girlfriend can uptake their drug money and move to Benidorm no questions asked while local schoolteacher Maria and her 3 children can't afford to pay rent on their apartment next door.

I think it's wrong to blame tourists for the problem because the economies are now too intrinsically linked to the towns and cities they're in - removing tourists and putting thousands of waiters and bartenders and chefs out of work is just shifting one problem over to another.

They need to tackle the root cause of foreign property buying. It's the biggest burden on ordinary people but it probably won't change because it's one of the biggest cash cows worldwide for local governments. Whether it's the costa del sol full of English brats or London skyscrapers full of empty apartments owned by foreign investors... they need to figure out how to put some sort of cap on it otherwise the world's land will eventually be owned by the 1% (and drug dealers) and everyone else will just pay rent they can't afford. The signs are already there, this is just the latest step.

How's THAT for boomer!