Marina Salty
Ex QOTB
For comparison in 2022, EU residents spent €474 billion on tourism trips, 88% of their tourism expenditure on trips inside Europe.
I’m not sure how to even google the answer to that, but I am interested in knowingHow much of that 43% helps the local economy, though?
Nothing against US tourists or tourism - I've no doubt the exact same is true for cruise travel generally from anywhere. I can easily spend £2500 on a Mediterranean cruise. But how much of that is benefiting the areas I'm visiting?
but what are you actually arguing against here? nobody doubts that this much money is spent on travel. most destinations in Europe need fewer tourists travelling more consciously. mass tourism of the kind that's worth $43bn a year is precisely the problem.pretty expensive lunch and free healthcare, seeing as that Americans spend over $100 billion a year on international travel, 43% of which is in Europe
So she emigrates and then wants the proles back home to stay away from her?most destinations in Europe need fewer tourists
I have more thoughts I'll try to aticulate, but this was in response to this point, which is based on what exactly?but what are you actually arguing against here? nobody doubts that this much money is spent on travel. most destinations in Europe need fewer tourists travelling more consciously. mass tourism of the kind that's worth $43bn a year is precisely the problem.
Europe is dirt cheap for American tourists, they can afford a lot. they don't contribute to the economy because cruise ships drop them off for 4 hours and at most they buy lunch and a fridge magnet.
the well known fact that cruise ships have a schedule which involves stopping in a city, kicking guests off for half a day and then picking them up again?I have more thoughts I'll try to aticulate, but this was in response to this point, which is based on what exactly?
Common knowledge?I have more thoughts I'll try to aticulate, but this was in response to this point, which is based on what exactly?
yes I understand cruises as well thank you, but what makes you say they’re buying lunch and a magnet, and not, as many do, luxury clothes and bagsthe well known fact that cruise ships have a schedule which involves stopping in a city, kicking guests off for half a day and then picking them up again?
so then Gucci and Prada are benefitting. happy for them!...and not, as many do, luxury clothes and bags
So...capitalism?additionally, if all these tens or hundreds of billions are so good for local economies... why are the restaurant workers in Rome, in Barcelona, in Athens working on minimum wage? why do the bar staff who serve the tourists generally live out of town? I was talking to a waitress in Bologna who told me that to have her own studio she had to move out of the city. that's as the city has become more popular as a tourist destination and that's likely the case for a majority of service workers who work crazy hours to keep the tourism industry rolling.
a small and concentrated number of people benefit financially: private property owners, airlines, cruise ship companies, hotel chains. but it's not like the quality of life has sharply risen for locals in these destinations. quite the opposite.
On the other side of the coin, travel needs to be accessible for all and not just the preserve of people with a shit ton of money.
I'm probably on a different page to a lot of people on Moopy but I do kind of think 'just suck it up' when people are going on about tourists. It's not just something that happens in other countries; sleepy little Bourton on the Water is basically impassable in peak season, but what's the alternative? They're making an absolute wad and without tourists the Cotswolds would just be a bunch of cunts living in drafty houses. I work two days a week in Stratford and it's CRAWLING with tourists, to the point any actually useful shops for residents are being shunted to out of town shopping areas so they can fill the centre with tea shops, fudge pantries and gift shops selling - insanely - I heart London t-shirts. Despite that, nobody there begrudges tourism because the town is raking it in and they have the highest employment rate in the country.
They hardly know these.so then Gucci and Prada are benefitting. happy for them!
omgso next time I'm in Amsterdam, how can I be a perfect tourist? should I buy cheap things or expensive things? go to tourist traps or ruin local neighborhoods? I'm counting on real Dutch people like @Jark for some advice
so next time I'm in Amsterdam, how can I be a perfect tourist? should I buy cheap things or expensive things? go to tourist traps or ruin local neighborhoods? I'm counting on real Dutch people like @Jark for some advice
of course tourists will always do broadly the same things. and just for the record I'm not fucking ANTI TOURIST (or anti-american). my main concern with what's happening in Europe (and other places) is environmental - the tourism industry is an insane polluter. the best thing you can do as an individual is simply travel less, and get around as sustainably as possible when you do. my second concern is cultural and communities moving out of these places as the tourists come in ever greater numbers.so next time I'm in Amsterdam, how can I be a perfect tourist? should I buy cheap things or expensive things? go to tourist traps or ruin local neighborhoods? I'm counting on real Dutch people like @Jark for some advice
Do they though?overall tourist numbers have to be controlled and reduced significantly.
MOOPMEET BARCELONA?
yes dear.Do they though?
Do they though?
You've yet to give compelling evidence to support thisyes dear.
The environmental point is fair and so is the cultural one, but I have yet to see any actual non-anecdotal evidence that tourism isn’t benefitting the economy.of course tourists will always do broadly the same things. and just for the record I'm not fucking ANTI TOURIST (or anti-american). my main concern with what's happening in Europe (and other places) is environmental - the tourism industry is an insane polluter. the best thing you can do as an individual is simply travel less, and get around as sustainably as possible when you do. my second concern is cultural and communities moving out of these places as the tourists come in ever greater numbers.
It does both, no? AirBnbs drive up rental housing prices for locals because dwellings that would have been long-term rental units before, landlords can now charge $150 per night for as an AirBnb. Sure this results in higher taxes for the government but it makes an individual's economic situation worse and brings down their disposable income.The environmental point is fair and so is the cultural one, but I have yet to see any actual non-anecdotal evidence that tourism isn’t benefitting the economy.
Nope! Start controlling tourist numbers to Spain and the economy collapses. The only thing that needs control is where tourists stay and how.
You've yet to give compelling evidence to support this
How exactly will Roman and Athenian workers get richer by curbing tourism?
They won't get richer, they'll be able to rent a flat to live in, in a price that will be in proportion to their wages, as it was before airbnb for example.How exactly will Roman and Athenian workers get richer by curbing tourism?
Then policies should target Airbnb, which governments do. And they work. They keep the housing market reflective of the country's population and its demands/supplies.They won't get richer, they'll be able to rent a flat to live in, in a price that will be in proportion to their wages, as it was before airbnb for example.
and they'll actually be able to live IN their own city. instead of commuting in and paying for the privilege.They won't get richer, they'll be able to rent a flat to live in, in a price that will be in proportion to their wages, as it was before airbnb for example.
This is what I was trying to type up but couldn't express.It does both, no? AirBnbs drive up rental housing prices for locals because dwellings that would have been long-term rental units before, landlords can now charge $150 per night for as an AirBnb. Sure this results in higher taxes for the government but it makes an individual's economic situation worse and brings down their disposable income.