Edward Colston and the removal of racist statues

[lolly]

 

[big ron]

Have we seen that TEA is now antifascist?

 

[win_the_game]

Yes the Melville Monument commemorating Henry Dundas, 1st Vicount Melville as T-R mentioned. He's known for promoting the Scottish Enlightenment and one of the leading Scottish political figures at the time. He was nicknamed 'the Great Tyrant' and 'Uncrowned King of Scotland' due to the level of control he wielded up here. It was privately funded in the 1800s by members of the navy.

His political efforts to delay the abolition of slavery are frequently overlooked, as is his role in the Highland Clearances and expansion of the British Empire in India.
There were grumblings about the statue for years so a plaque was added in 2016 to highlight the controversy surrounding this legacy.

The monument was restored in 2008 but really should have been removed at that point. It's an embarrassment that he still stands high on his pedestal.

As it turns out the council don't own the monument so can't actually remove it. The gardens that it is located in are privately owned and thus they'll likely hold ownership of the statue. Still a meeting has been convened to discuss ways to improve the wording of the plaque.

 

[Peekaboo]

I hope it gets vandalised to fuck. We've had ENOUGH of FUCKING MEETINGS. Take it down. It's not that hard.

 

[Berly]

In Ashbourne, locals have taken down a racist black mans head monument that welcomes you to the town... but only to... stop the council from taking it down?

 

[lolly]

Let's face it, it'll be harder to topple than Colston. But I'm sure plenty of people are planning it right now.

 

[Ellie]

#solidaritea is one of the best things I’ve seen today

 

[Dark Carnival]

 

[GNL]

In Ashbourne, locals have taken down a racist black mans head monument that welcomes you to the town... but only to... stop the council from taking it down?

Taking down racist symbols to own the libs.

 

[Tetris-Rock]

I hope it gets vandalised to fuck. We've had ENOUGH of FUCKING MEETINGS. Take it down. It's not that hard.

Yes, I think it's owned by the Bank of Scotland or Royal Bank of Scotland so I don't think we can expect sweeping change anytime soon. If you want efficiency or to see it come down before you draw a pension, I recommend yanking the fucker off his plinth.

 

[Soldi]

In Ashbourne, locals have taken down a racist black mans head monument that welcomes you to the town... but only to... stop the council from taking it down?

And people WONDER why I want to move away from Derbyshire

 

[lolly]

No word on the renaming of Whiteladies Road which leads into Blackboy Hill here yet. Looking forward to the debate, though.

 

[Kala]

There must be HUNDREDS of statues all around the UK of people with links to the slave trade, I can think of 3 at least in George Square in Glasgow. And then there is the street names, and it is not only street names but there are building, shopping centres, even whole TOWNS will be named after people etc...it will be interersting to see if any change is brought.

 

[lolly]

I imagine there will be a lot of hastily arranged zoom meetings. Councils will be shitting themselves.

 

[Mats]

As it turns out the council don't own the monument so can't actually remove it. The gardens that it is located in are privately owned and thus they'll likely hold ownership of the statue. Still a meeting has been convened to discuss ways to improve the wording of the plaque.

I remember that struck me as quite odd as I visited last year, that a small central PARK like that was privately owned

 

[lolly]

I remember that struck me as quite odd as I visited last year, that a small central PARK like that was privately owned

I don’t think it's THAT unusual here really. The biggest park within the city proper here is partly privately owned, although with full public access.

And there is a growing issue here of 'pseudo public spaces', particularly in newer retail and office environments - areas which the public can and do use, but which are privately owned by corporations and financial backers who are allowed to impose their own rules and restrictions in terms of what is allowed within them.

 

[SDF]

There must be HUNDREDS of statues all around the UK of people with links to the slave trade, I can think of 3 at least in George Square in Glasgow. And then there is the street names, and it is not only street names but there are building, shopping centres, even whole TOWNS will be named after people etc...it will be interersting to see if any change is brought.

IKR! Donald Dewar springs to mind!!!

 

[lolly]

There must be HUNDREDS of statues all around the UK of people with links to the slave trade, I can think of 3 at least in George Square in Glasgow. And then there is the street names, and it is not only street names but there are building, shopping centres, even whole TOWNS will be named after people etc...it will be interersting to see if any change is brought.

Well the Colston statue is gone. The Colston Hall (main concert venue) which had already signalled intent to change name has now decided to bring that forward to autumn. The two schools here named after him have both said they are 'reconsidering' the name - which they both did a couple of years ago, but ended up deciding to stick with it.

That leaves the road name the statue stood on, the office block behind it, and the almshouses around the corner. Change is coming.

 

[VoR]

Beyond parody

 

[lolly]

Well the Colston statue is gone. The Colston Hall (main concert venue) which had already signalled intent to change name has now decided to bring that forward to autumn. The two schools here named after him have both said they are 'reconsidering' the name - which they both did a couple of years ago, but ended up deciding to stick with it.

That leaves the road name the statue stood on, the office block behind it, and the almshouses around the corner. Change is coming.

Oh, and three other smaller roads and streets, thinking about it. Although a pub on one of them which was called The Colston Yard changed its name to The Bristol Yard a few years ago.

And this has already happened on one of the residential roads named after him.

 

[lolly]

This woman is amazing. I know this has more local interest to me, but watch it if you haven't, please.

And then there's this



What a QoL

 

[lolly]

is 'stay hydrated, okay? x' a thing? It fucking ought to be.

 

[Kate]

Isn't it a Love Island thing? I dunno

 

[VoR]

This felt like a seperate thread to the George Floyd stuff.

 

[Peekaboo]

The BBC have now removed Little Britain and Come Fly with Me from all streaming services. "Times have changed".

 

[win_the_game]

Both series were offensive at the time, never mind now.

 

[Lucille]

The BBC have now removed Little Britain and Come Fly with Me from all streaming services. "Times have changed".

The top rated comment on that story in the DM is "FFS 2020 gets worse every day".

REALLY?

 

[Kate]

I'll flog them my Little Britain Series 1 DVD for £500 if they want. Is there a special gammon eBay?

 

[GNL]

I'll flog them my Little Britain Series 1 DVD for £500 if they want. Is there a special gammon eBay?

Facebook marketplace.

 

[Kate]

Facebook marketplace.

Isn't that full of absolute scum going "I'll take it if you wrap it in solid gold leaf and deliver it by hand direct to my DVD player and give me £20 for the privilege MY CHILD IS DYING"

 

[win_the_game]

The top rated comment on that story in the DM is "FFS 2020 gets worse every day".

REALLY?

I’d expect nothing less from their gammon readership.

“This country is turning into a dictatorship”

“How long before mention of the word BLACK will be banned”

“Country is a laughing stock, take me back to the 80s when people had common sense”

Surprised no one has bemoaned that they’ll be coming for our golliwogs next.

 

[VoR]

Have Matt Lucas and David Walliams said anything?

 

[Star]

A fb acquaintance of mine has gone off on a rant about the possible removal of statutes;

black people aren’t the only ones to be treated badly, the slave trade was bad, but we abolished it, go after the countries that still have it. Shall we get rid of all the concentration camps in Eastern Europe because they were built with slave labour? Do we destroy Italy because it was built by British slaves stolen by the romans? You can’t put that argument, every country in the world has used slaves and there are countries still using slaves. Are you going to go after the African countries who actually sold their own people because the money was desired? No, if you want to claim the slave trade then you need to learn about the slave trade. England was the first country abolish it and actively went after countries that didn’t. I am fed up with people demanding that history be removed because they don’t like it. That isn’t how life works, as a historian I am offended that people are trying to erase it and I will fight to preserve it. If you are so offended by these statues why don’t you name me a few? Because let’s be honest you have walked passed them and never taken any notice, you are only offended now because someone has told you to be

 

[Star]

Sorry I should have put that in the other thread

 

[Peekaboo]

Have Matt Lucas and David Walliams said anything?

From the Guardian's article that covers this:

Lucas, set to be the new host of Great British Bake Off on Channel 4, has previously expressed regret about some of the characters in the show. In a 2017 interview with the Big Issue, he said it was “lazy” to “get a laugh just by playing black characters”.

“If I could go back and do Little Britain again, I wouldn’t make those jokes about transvestites. I wouldn’t play black characters,” he said. “Basically, I wouldn’t make that show now. It would upset people. We made a more cruel kind of comedy than I’d do now.”

The pair most recently revived the show, which began on radio in 2000, for a short appearance on the BBC’s Big Night In. They also did a radio special in 2019. However, Walliams agreed with his co-creator, that while Little Britain may return again, it has to move with the times, saying he would “definitely do it differently” now.

So they wouldn't do it again but THEY JUST DID a few weeks ago (for charity so it's all good).

 

[Peekaboo]

The whole "times have changed" is such pile of bullshit from the BBC - I wasn't in the UK when Little Britain first aired but I DEFINITELY remember all the conversation around Come Fly with Me back when it came out. I think what they mean by "times have changed" is that ordinary people can easily call them up a lot more on social media these days whereas before they could bury PEASANT'S DEMANDS via their BYZANTINE COMPLAINTS UNIT as long as it didn't reach the papers.

 

[VoR]

Sorry I should have put that in the other thread

Moved for you

 

[Lucille]

A fb acquaintance of mine has gone off on a rant about the possible removal of statutes;

black people aren’t the only ones to be treated badly, the slave trade was bad, but we abolished it, go after the countries that still have it. Shall we get rid of all the concentration camps in Eastern Europe because they were built with slave labour? Do we destroy Italy because it was built by British slaves stolen by the romans? You can’t put that argument, every country in the world has used slaves and there are countries still using slaves. Are you going to go after the African countries who actually sold their own people because the money was desired? No, if you want to claim the slave trade then you need to learn about the slave trade. England was the first country abolish it and actively went after countries that didn’t. I am fed up with people demanding that history be removed because they don’t like it. That isn’t how life works, as a historian I am offended that people are trying to erase it and I will fight to preserve it. If you are so offended by these statues why don’t you name me a few? Because let’s be honest you have walked passed them and never taken any notice, you are only offended now because someone has told you to be

No ones exactly proposing knocking down the pyramids or the coliseum are they? As he said "Because let’s be honest you have walked passed them and never taken any notice". QUITE. These are mostly non-descript statues that no one care a JOT about, just GET RID.

 

[Kate]

The BLM protests (and this by extension) have REALLY brought out some people's true colours haven't they? I thought I had the measure of everyone on my FB after Brexit, the December election, Covid and Dominic Cummings, but oh no, I was wrong.

 

[lolly]

I find the whole removing or erasing history argument utterly fatuous. Who on earth is trying to do that, or to claim it didn’t happen? Clearly this has made more people engage with history and acknowledge it.

And 'as a historian I'm offended'? Fuck off. The fact that you may have had more knowledge about it is an utter irrelevance. It doesnt make you more qualified or your opinion worth any more. If anything it makes you worse. You can't hide behind ignorance and are more complicit.