Ridiculously behind the times The West Wing topic

YAY! I've started again (5th time now I think?) and I'm whizzing through at breakneck speed, about 2 a night. I'm up to "What Kind Of Day Has It Been" (finale of S1) :o which I'm very excited about watching again tonight "I saw something... I saw something..." it's just too good.

I'm loving watching old CJ as she tries to fight through the inherent sexism of the West Wing in her kooky manner, and the subtle hints of Donna and Josh eventually getting it on (most perfectly laid out love story of all time).

There are so many amazing scenes in S1, I'm going to start posting them once I've watched the episode.

S2 ep1 is also one of the best ever, I'll watch that over the weekend.

Fro - I'm surprised to hear you say S3 is great all the way through... I've read similar reviews where S1-3 are gold, whereas I've always had it as 1-2 and 3 is where it drops (slightly). As a result I usually stop my re-watching at the end of S2 (I've "only" seen 3-7 twice through). I think it's partly because the build-up to the president's health issue coming out is so off the charts magnificent that going back to normal in S3 is just hard to get used to. Plus I found the upgrade to HD Widescreen in S3 a bit jarring at first but I'm used to it now. S4 isn't that bad though is it? Especially the last few episodes. The episode with Zoe in the nightclub is one of the best episodes ever I think. Brilliantly directed.

Of course it's worth sticking with the ups and downs of S4 and S5, because S6 is great and S7 is bloody brilliant...
 
I agree the build up to the MS revelation is great but I love S3 for the aftermath and how it's handled. Also the introduction of some great new characters - Amy Gardner, Cliff Calley, Bruno.

My problem with S4 now is that the election seems so rushed in comparison to S6 & 7 and once Bartlet won, the show seems to coast for a few episodes, meaning midway through the season lags a bit and we get filler episodes like 'The Long Goodbye'. I agree it picks up again towards the end so all is not lost.

Also I really don't think S5 is as bad as it's made out to be, bar 'Access' most of the episodes are quite good. It seems to be the most derided by fans purely because it's evident that Sorkin is gone and the new writers are just finding their feet, whereas by S6 & 7 the series has a season long plotline so the focus is tighter and there's an outcome at the end. When you watch S5 purely as a transition season it's fine and still heads above other TV shows at the time.
 
I love 'The Long Goodbye' episode. Of course it's filler, to the extent that it barely seems like it's the same show for the most part, but it's brilliantly written and acted, as well as being one of the most genuinely heartbreaking episodes of a TV show that I think I've ever seen.
 
is that the one with CJ and her dad?

I do remember looking back thinking that TWW veers off the point a little but in hindsight yes, they are some magnificent pieces of writing/acting/directing which can't be denied. I think a lot of people were so in awe of the brilliance of S1-3 that changing tack now and again was hard to handle. But if every episode had stayed within the confines of the West Wing for 7 years, people would have just said it was too samey. You can't win everyone.

I can't think about all that yet because I still have to work my way through S2... the greatest television season in history. The banter between Sam and Ainsley. CJ going from henpecked outsider to political QOL (sorry), the slow build of Bartlet's secret (the episode where Toby puts it together is astonishing, goosebumps don't even describe that sequence where he's working it all out over a period of 3 days at the episode opening), the radio dinner where Bartlet OWNS that bigoted woman on homosexuality, Lionel Tribbey... oh I could go on.

Also, Cliff Calley :horny:
 
also yeah it was odd how they rushed the election in S3, which was such an obvious opportunity to anchor a pivotal storyline over a number of episodes. Especially considering how perfectly executed it was throughout the entire run of season 7.
 
OMG :disco:

<iframe width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/PBCTtnRXIjI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
AMAZING sequence http://youtu.be/AnWpSnMj-vI


"He's a good man, he's a smart man, I think he'd make a very good corporate officer"
"Why is he being fired, sir?"
"Gross incompentence, I'll be right back..."


"I'm sorry to do this but I'd like to speak to your supervisor"
"Well I'm personal aide to the President so my supervisor is a bit busy right now looking for a back door of this place to shove you out of, but I'll let him know you'd like to lodge a complaint"


"I'd like to make a confession. I never voted for you."
"Well, thanks for trying, but here I am anyway!"



GOLD.
 
The Chief of Staff to the First Lady never had a prominent role so I guess Donna might've just been reduced to a recurring character.
 
I think they rushed the first election storyline because they knew that the cast's contracts were all going to expire after seven years. The Rob Lowe saga showed that they couldn't afford to keep everyone and so they had to get to the end of the Bartlet years by the end of S7.
 
they didn't rush it to condense the timeline - the timeline is completely accurate in terms of real life. The show begins at the start of the second year of office - so that's 7 full years of remaining presidency over 7 seasons

they definitely did glaze over the first election but timelines wasn't the reason

Rob Lowe didn't leave because of money. He was the highest paid actor on the show. He left because he felt he was no longer the focal point of the show, which he was promised to be, until the show (quite rightly) shifted to President Bartlet, who was originally supposed to be only a recurring character. He didn't like his storylines, so they all (amicably, maybe) agreed to part ways.

The EXACT same thing happened in Brothers & Sisters. He's useful as a NAME to lure in a healthy start to a show, but once things get going he gets acted off the screen.

I liked Sam Seaborn, but he was the least likeable and least important of all the main characters. I didn't miss him at all (although clearly America did). Mind you, had they found someone better to replace him than Will Bailey it might have worked out better. For some reason Sorkin has a stiffy for Joshua Malina, but he just didn't have the GRAVITAS to match wits with Whitford, Janney or Schiff.
 
Saw Rob Lowe on Oprah recently and he now says that money was partly the reason for his decision to leave. All the other cast members were given raises in their salaries during their time on the show and when RL asked for one, he was denied. He also said he regrets leaving. That said I think he went at the right time, his character ,as funky said ,was the least important of all the leads and his storylines were almost always the weakest in an episode. He was nice to look at though :horny:
 
I'm fairly sure that the story at the time was that Rob's departure was money related. That doesn't mean that it was the actual reason, of course.

With regards to his acting, I always thought that he was quite good, at least in scenes where he wasn't required to threaten to bust someone like a pinata. The second season episode where he found out that his dad had had a mistress was probably my favourite Rob Lowe acting moment.
 
oh Sam definitely had his moments. He was quite an interesting character too in many ways. But he's up against the best of the best as far as TV goes. On any other show you wouldn't notice it. Up against Toby, CJ, Josh, Ged Bartlet, Leo, Donna, even the likes of Ainsley and Danny... he just wasn't as good.

it surprises me that he still aims for the money issue, considering that the reason all the others got pay rises is because they were paid much less than Lowe and Sheen for the first 2 seasons. It was the same controversy that affected Friends when the cast were all hired at a much lower fee than Courteney Cox, and it took about four seasons for them to all fall in line. For him to complain about not getting a payrise when everyone else was simply catching up to his rate, is a bit RUDE! He was obviously going for the stubborn pride route when he left, when anyone with sense would realise they had a dream acting gig and stayed put. Plus, in playing Sam Seaborn he was even luckier because his character was definitely the most expendable. I'd have kept my mouth shut and woke up every day just happy to be on that set.
 
This is one of my favourite clips of the entire series. PRICELESS.



"You know what happened? I didn't have my GAME face on" :D
 
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She was amazing beyond words in it, and she is my favourite non-recurring character by a mile. My mother-in-law HATED her though because she was ANNOYING (= radical feminist) and got in the way of the TRUE LOVE (= Stepfordesque submission) between Donna and Josh.

"I have wit, I have charm, I have brains, I have legs that go all the way down to the floor, baby" - :disco:
 
How is this going?

I need to live Seasons 6 and 7 vicariously through one of you.
 
oh you're three months late Mads - I watched 1-7 from start to finish recently (for the FOURTH TIME) as my bedtime viewing and I've now finished

are you watching it again or something?
 
Yes - but I want to see the reactions of someone who doesn't know who the 7th series nominees are, who wins the election, and that really really big thing that happens.

I'm watching Election Day Part II right now.
 
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hello. i have just started this. up to episode 5. it feels very 90s christmas movie but i am quite enjoying it chatty cathiness and dizzy office walk arounds.

i didn't know anything about the show beforehand other than it was alan sorkin's (love him) and thought it featured geena davis (realised that was commander in chief).

there's a lot to catch up with, isn't there?
 
i am loving this. predictably i am crazy about cj, not only because i can relate with her job-wise but because i can relate to her everything-wise. the bit with the gay kid's parent had me all choked up.

if it wasn't for the music and the outfits and the technology this show wouldn't seem that dated at all and it's almost 20 years old.
 
halfway through season one, miss avenue. i've got so much left i'm almost jealous of myself.
 
The production values weren't very high on Series 1. From 2 onwards it'll look even better.

It's poor timing though. The US primaries and presidential race would be much more interesting for those who have seen the last two series.
 
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The show loses quite a bit of momentum after Sorkin leaves in my opinion (although the cliffhanger to his last episode is EPIC). If you like CJ wait till you meet Amy Gardner.
 
i had to google amy gardner and omg it's mlp!

anyway, i'm feeling a bit icky about season two so far. donna has not been delivering, it's being extra sappy and naive and this new female feels like a generic stand in for mandy who's vanished into thin air.
 
halfway through season 5 now. the first season has been my favourite so far and, yes, bits of it make me sick to my stomach but it offers interesting insight, there's a wealth of great characters and a lot to be learned.

knicked from another thread

10 Josiah "Jed" Bartlet - President of the United States
06 Leo McGarry - Chief of Staff (Seasons 1–6)
06 Josh Lyman - Deputy Chief of Staff (Seasons 1–6)
07 Toby Ziegler - Communications Director
10 C. J. Cregg - Press Secretary (Seasons 1–6)
08 Sam Seaborn - Deputy Communications Director (Seasons 1–4)
10 Donna Moss - Senior Assistant to Josh Lyman (Seasons 1–6)
09 Abigail Bartlet - First Lady
05 Charlie Young - Personal Aide to the President (Seasons 1–6)
06 Will Bailey - Deputy Communications Director (Seasons 4–5)
?? Annabeth Schott - Deputy Press Secretary (Season 6)
?? Matt Santos - Congressman from Texas (Season 6)
?? Arnold Vinick - Senator from California (Season 6)
?? Kate Harper - Deputy National Security Advisor (Seasons 5–7)
04 Mandy Hampton - White House Media Consultant (Season 1)
09 Mrs. Landingham - Executive Secretary to the President (Seasons 1-2)
08 Deborah Fiderer - Executive Secretary to the President (Seasons 4-7)
08 Amy Gardner - Woman who nags and sleeps with Josh
08 Oliver Babbish - White House Counsel
07 John Hoynes - Vice President (Seasons 1-4)
07 Bob Russell - Vice President (Seasons 5-7)
08 Margaret Hooper - Assistant to the Chief of Staff (Seasons 1-7)
07 Carol Fitzpatrick - Assistant ot the Press Secretary
05 Zoey Bartlet - Useless waste of space

10 Ainsley Hayes - Associate White House Counsel
07 Admiral Fitzwallace - Chairman Of The Joint Chiefs
08 Joey Lucas - Pollster
09 Danny Concannon - White House Reporter/CJ's lover
09 Nancy McNally - National Security Advisor
06 Bruno Gianelli - Campaign Strategist
?? Gina Toscano - Zoey's bodyguard
09 Andrea Wyatt - Toby's ex-wife
03 Mallory O'Brien - Leo's daughter
08 Lord John Marbury - UK Ambassador
07 Glen Walken - Speaker Of The House/Temporary President
05 Ryan Pierce - Josh's intern
03 Ellie Bartlet - President's middle daughter
06 Liz Bartlet - President's eldest daughter
 
Shocked and appalled that you've given NOTORIOUS STEPFORD WIFE Donna a TEN and then neglected the TRUE HEROINES of this show alongside CJ (Amy and Margaret). I love Abigail too but she is an acquired taste I do concede.

Gay hyperbole aside, in my opinion for better and worse the real heart of the show lies with Toby. It's been DECADES since I watched TWW but I'll do mine:

09 Josiah "Jed" Bartlet - President of the United States
10 Leo McGarry - Chief of Staff (Seasons 1–6)
07 Josh Lyman - Deputy Chief of Staff (Seasons 1–6)
11 Toby Ziegler - Communications Director
10 C. J. Cregg - Press Secretary (Seasons 1–6)
07 Sam Seaborn - Deputy Communications Director (Seasons 1–4)
05 Donna Moss - Senior Assistant to Josh Lyman (Seasons 1–6)
10 Abigail Bartlet - First Lady
05 Charlie Young - Personal Aide to the President (Seasons 1–6)
07 Will Bailey - Deputy Communications Director (Seasons 4–5)
09 Annabeth Schott - Deputy Press Secretary (Season 6)
07 Matt Santos - Congressman from Texas (Season 6)
07 Arnold Vinick - Senator from California (Season 6)
?? Kate Harper - Deputy National Security Advisor (Seasons 5–7)
?? Mandy Hampton - White House Media Consultant (Season 1)
08 Mrs. Landingham - Executive Secretary to the President (Seasons 1-2)
07 Deborah Fiderer - Executive Secretary to the President (Seasons 4-7)
10 Amy Gardner - Woman who nags and sleeps with Josh
?? Oliver Babbish - White House Counsel
?? John Hoynes - Vice President (Seasons 1-4)
05 Bob Russell - Vice President (Seasons 5-7)
10 Margaret Hooper - Assistant to the Chief of Staff (Seasons 1-7)
05 Carol Fitzpatrick - Assistant ot the Press Secretary
09 Zoey Bartlet - Useless waste of space

?? Ainsley Hayes - Associate White House Counsel
?? Admiral Fitzwallace - Chairman Of The Joint Chiefs
?? Joey Lucas - Pollster
09 Danny Concannon - White House Reporter/CJ's lover
08 Nancy McNally - National Security Advisor
?? Bruno Gianelli - Campaign Strategist
?? Gina Toscano - Zoey's bodyguard
09 Andrea Wyatt - Toby's ex-wife
04 Mallory O'Brien - Leo's daughter
05 Lord John Marbury - UK Ambassador
?? Glen Walken - Speaker Of The House/Temporary President
?? Ryan Pierce - Josh's intern
?? Ellie Bartlet - President's middle daughter
?? Liz Bartlet - President's eldest daughter
 
donna is great. yes, she mousey and that crush on josh has to go but her heart is in the right place.

i quite like most of the female characters really.

josh is a great character and i mostly find i sympathise with him but i can't get past how much i despise half of his traits.
 
So I'm on my SIXTH run of watching this all the way through, just hit Season 7 and I can continue to say, without exaggeration, that it remains the best written TV show of all time.

Nothing has matched it since.

Anyone looking for something meaty to get stuck into and a classic TV show to cross off your bucketlist, every episode is on All4 now. Even if you just watch the first 2 seasons, its imperial era, that would be enough to enrich your life :disco:
 
I still give Seasons 6 and 7 a re-watch every presidential election year.
 
23 years later, I have started this show. I'm about 4 episodes in and I love it. So far I'm most into CJ and Leo

I watched the first couple episodes when I was about 12, but I didn't really get it.

I didn't want to read too much of this thread because of the spoilers, but it seems like it stays pretty good for all 7 seasons?
 
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