The Israel-Gaza war and wider Middle-East tensions

joanne said:
anyway, sorry for interrupting – let's keep the anti-Jew propaganda rolling in this thread.

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Why is it every time Israel is criticised it’s anti-Jew?

EVERY TIME?

How many different ways can someone say criticising Israel is not anti Jewish?
 
Not that I believe the story about organ harvesting. But if we’re going to have a discussion about anti semitism let’s use actual evidence
 
CNN have managed to get people into Gaza, I beg you to please watch this report (though it is distressing):
 
Wow I’m so shocked that that has happened, to think they were being so precise and careful as well
 
IDF sniper kills two Christian women on parish grounds in Gaza, as confirmed by the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem:
 
If you click on them they'll open in the app, if you have it. I'm assuming it's a temporary thing, but who knows.
 
It amazes me that anyone could ever possibly consider supporting this movement given that Israel is not going to be a safe or secure place for the next 100 years after what Netenyahu has done. Apart from all the disgusting death and destruction it is the most unspeakable act of selfishness for every Israeli whose life is now ruined. The lack of big picture thinking is just mind boggling. Absolutely lacking in any kind of strategy whatsoever.
 
Fucking idiots. They think the rest of the world doesn’t have Google, some of the shite they come out with.
 
I really shouldn't be surprised by this, but the most powerful man in the world really is commited to keeping the death machine rolling:
 
But what does all the calmer rhetoric matter if you’re willing to ignore decades of international co-operation to support a crooked agenda with one country acting as an aggressor? It undermines everything else that he has over Trump. If America can’t be a responsible superpower then nothing else matters
 
I don't agree with the US approach on this, but it's not helpful to just assume Biden wakes up in the morning and chooses evil. For better or worse, his view is pretty clear that he can do more to mitigate the damage by putting behind the scenes pressure on the Netanyahu government from the position of an ally, rather than an adversary of the state of Israel. That's fairly consistent with the approach he's taken for decades.
 
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I don’t think Trump is evil either though, I think he’s stupid, ignorant, dangerous, arrogant, but not evil.

I don’t think Biden is evil either, but looking at reports saying 10,000 innocent people dead and choosing to maintain a “healthy relationship” with Israel over a ceasefire is not exactly Mr World Democracy either.

Voting for a UN ceasefire does not make him an adversary, it makes him a responsible superpower. If his strategy is to use his alliance with Israel to bend Netenyahu, then that strategy has failed immeasurably.
 
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And the approach taken for decades shouldn’t be resolute either. Netenyahu has set many new precedents in the last month and the US should be compelled to recognise that.
 
To be fair though, that's very easy for us to say. It's hard to articulate this without sounding like I'm invoking negative stereotypes so please forgive me if this comes out poorly, but it is a pretty demonstrable fact that US politics and particularly the democratic party has a very strong and vocal Jewish caucus, many of whom will be lobbying strongly for continued support of Isreal. Biden isn't an autocrat. It's horrible I know, but the choice he's having to make is between calling for a ceasefire that probably won't happen either way, or tearing his own party apart on the eve of an election year.

Also worth noting that according to the recent polls, while a majority of young people support Palestine, an overall majority of Americans on both sides of the political spectrum support Israel.

Again, I can't defend all this, I wish it were different, but I do think it's important that we acknowledge the political realities at play.
 
Everyone knows I’m all about political realities, sometimes to my own downfall on moopy. But this is something else. This isn’t supposed left wing parties cosying up to the centre on immigration. This is equivalent to genocide. Policies have to be called into question here. Again, calling for a ceasefire is not denouncing Israel. It’s putting human rights first. If the leading players of the UN can’t manage that, then they serve no purpose.
 
agreed. I don't think Biden personally is pro Israel actually, but there are two realities that can't be ignored: politicians on both sides are strongly pro Israel, reflecting the US as a whole, and the US is historically a huge ally and a major supplier of arms and military equipment. getting ANYTHING through is impossible without unilateral support and a switch in policy on Israel is hardly gonna be a go-er.

all of that said, the US stance is incredibly frustrating and is costing hundreds of lives daily. there's no two ways around it.
 
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