The Israel-Gaza war and wider Middle-East tensions

Well for what it's worth, there is evidence that the US is shifting, albiet slowly. The headlines are all about how they're blocking the UN resolution, but in reality they're deep into intense negotiations to find a way of wording it that they can live with. Incredibly frustrating, but considering the position they started from a few weeks ago, it is actually quite a significant sign that world opinion continues to shift against Netanyahu's government. And he'll be very aware of that.

Similarly, as of today Keir Starmer is now also modifying his position.

 
Also worth noting that according to the recent polls, while a majority of young people support Palestine, an overall majority of Americans on both sides of the political spectrum support Israel.
I think it's worth not conflating support for Israel in the abstract with support for their recent actions. Here's a recent poll by Data For Progress (not a far left outfit in any way) showing that 61% of voters or likely voters (76% of Democrats) support an immediate ceasefire.
 
Speaking of unprecedented - THIS is why referencing historic policies and relationships and commitments shouldn’t matter anymore in this case. This is why people with actual influence need to change their stance.

Absolutely beyond abhorrent. Israel cannot undo this. They will be judged for generations and the consequences are too big to comprehend.

 
I think it's worth not conflating support for Israel in the abstract with support for their recent actions. Here's a recent poll by Data For Progress (not a far left outfit in any way) showing that 61% of voters or likely voters (76% of Democrats) support an immediate ceasefire.
The first paragraph of this is so interesting

When asked how knowledgeable they are about the Israel-Palestine conflict, 25% of voters say they have either an “extensive” or “proficient” level of knowledge, while 35% say they have a “moderate” knowledge level. Voters who get their news from social media are especially likely to consider themselves knowledgeable: 36% of voters who get news from Instagram, 33% of voters who get news from TikTok, and 30% of voters who get news from Facebook say they have extensive or proficient knowledge about the conflict.
 
My feeling is that most people support a ceasefire because what is going on is so clearly wrong, but most also don’t have an answer for this now decades long conflict
 
My feeling is that most people support a ceasefire because what is going on is so clearly wrong, but most also don’t have an answer for this now decades long conflict

Well the answers should be pretty easy:

Respect (and make sure you get) the two state solution deal. Get the settlers out of the West Bank and stop wanting to exterminate each other.

But it’s obvious that influential groups on both sides (and some of their supporters too, like Iran) have no interest in doing so and therefore nothing will happen and those who will continue to suffer the most are the Palestinians.
 
Respect (and make sure you get) the two state solution deal. Get the settlers out of the West Bank and stop wanting to exterminate each other.
I didn't mean to say there isn't a good answer morally. I agree that this is what would be best. The difficulty is finding an answer politically/logistically
 
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Trump would be worse on this and literally everything else

I know that. I obviously don’t think Biden is anywhere near as bad as Trump. I was saying it for effect to emphasise the fact that his current strategy is achieving absolutely nothing for Gaza.
 
Biden’s strategy isn’t working (though I still maintain him calling for a ceasefire wouldn’t change Israel’s actions) but Trump winning again feels like a worldwide existential threat, and he would be openly pushing for Israel to destroy Gaza completely
 
Biden’s strategy isn’t working (though I still maintain him calling for a ceasefire wouldn’t change Israel’s actions) but Trump winning again feels like a worldwide existential threat, and he would be openly pushing for Israel to destroy Gaza completely

Not really, Trump has been recently criticised by the corporate media over his "change of stance over Israel". He is shifting sides (mainly to appeal to his alt-right base) and because of personal beef with Bibi Satanyahu.

Biden is evil, pure and simple. He is a self proclaimed Zionist. He lied about seeing photos of decapitated Israeli babies, he downplayed and laughed off the number of gazan casualties and was quick to absolve Israel when the (first) hospital they bombed in Gaza was blamed on "Hamas misfired rocket". He was the propagator of Israeli lies for the first month of the war, then the "concern for high civilian casualties" only came out when his polling numbers showed hes fucked.

Biden is an abhorent, corrupt, morally bankrupt career politician. He is evil, his wife is evil, his son is evil, even his dog is evil.
 
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Not really, Trump has been recently criticised by the corporate media over his "change of stance over Israel". He is shifting sides (mainly to appeal to his alt-right base) and because of personal beef with Bibi Satanyahu.

Biden is evil, pure and simple. He is a self proclaimed Zionist. He lied about seeing photos of decapitated Israeli babies, he downplayed and laughed off the number of gazan casualties and was quickly to absolve Israel when the (first) hospital they bombed in Gaza was blamed on "Hamas misfired rocket". He was the propagator of Israeli lies for the first month of the war, then the "concern for high civilian casualties" came out only when his disastrous polling numbers came out.

Biden is an abhorent, corrupt, morally bankrupt career politician. He is evil, his wife is evil, his son is evil, even his dog is evil.
I disagree with this, but its a highly emotional issue, and I don’t think either of us are going to change each other’s mind
 
He is a self proclaimed Zionist.

Zionist
noun
1.
a supporter of Zionism; a person who believes in the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel.

Not sure if this word has got a new meaning somehow or if it’s being thrown around now like it’s used in the Arab word as something more evil than Satan, but of course the President of the United States is a Zionist.

Isn’t anyone who believes in Israel’s right to exist a Zionist
per definition?
 
Now that it already exists though, and generations have lived there and have no other place to go, what do you suggest should happen to them?
 
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Besides being one of the countries with the highest number of dual citizens, those who continue to migrate to Israel via the insanely supremacist "law of return for Jews" are instantly granted citizenship and acccommation within Israel's elastic borders or the occupied palestinian territories.

The ugliness of Zionism. EW.

But they have no other place to go, almost like being trapped in an open air prison, like Gaza?
 
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Hundreds of thousands of Middle Eastern Jews were expelled from the Arab countries last century (some had lived for Millennia in countries like Iraq and had no plans to leave). They don’t have any dual citizenship either. What do you suggest should happen to them if Israel as a state would according to your wish cease to exist?
 
@Tesco's world's smallest turkey, may I remind you of the first post, in particular:

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What do you mean I’ve never heard? I went to school in Iraq, they feed you anti-semitic and anti-Zionist propaganda before anything else.
 

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