J. K. Rowling and other TERFs

RJN said:
what??? What kind of pub were you in??
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Obviously the "hang 'em" comment was towards murderers in general just to clarify. I don't think their transphobia goes far beyond the usual "oh did you hear about that transsexual (sic) who killed a cat and then murdered a person" and sort of latching on to their identity.

But yeah just your ordinary ale place with people from... most walks of life.
 
I may be in my liberal Amsterdam bubble but I've never heard any casual transphobia in conversation. people of my generation at least mostly seem well educated and empathetic.

it's also really not the moment for opportunists, be it Joanne on twitter or hateful governments like the Tories, to successfully stir up the culture wars and make trans rights a talking point. it does feel (again to me, I don't want to negate anyone's lived experience) that things are better in this regard now vs. a year or two ago. I'm not even seeing as much casual transphobia in the media these past few months, after a period where it seemed to be inescapable. people's main concern everywhere you go is the economy. it's harder to get people mad about made-up issues when they can't afford rent or their disposable income is on the way down. I recognise that I'm speaking from a position of privilege though.
 
The Telegraph are putting anti-trans stuff on their front page every second day, sometimes daily. It's relentless. The other right wing papers do it; The Times are even more obsessed than the Mail.
 
I know they handpick their disgusting braindead audiences, but the open transphobia that was flung at India Willoughby on Question Time last year made it very clear the line has been crossed in a very frightening way.
 
That plays a part of it at the pub I'm sure, as it's usually the Heil or similar that I see sat on the little table where the communal paper(s) go. It does seem to still be the key target of the right wing at the moment - I've seen less of it online due to fucking off from Twitter but I know it's there.
 
Apparently she's a huge supporter of trans rights.

But she's a Tory. Hmm....
 
I'm thinking let's just take a Tory having a nice moment for what it is. Maybe she knows someone trans and could act as a voice for them on their side. These are useful people as they can argue for a "left" cause while being able to speak "right" language and be seen as one of theirs.
 
I mean, it's not like we don't already know she's a fucking irrational, rotten TERF. I don't get what the Twitter post achieves, other than revelling in the toxicity of it all, or, to be honest, posting it here- it just gives her more oxygen.

(And that isn't meant as offence @Art Decade - it's intended a questioning opinion, if that makes sense).
 
Sheena said:
I mean, it's not like we don't already know she's a fucking irrational, rotten TERF. I don't get what the Twitter post achieves, other than revelling in the toxicity of it all, or, to be honest, posting it here- it just gives her more oxygen.

(And that isn't meant as offence @Art Decade - it's intended a questioning opinion, if that makes sense).
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Sure, but that also applies to the existence of a thread titled "J.K. Rowling and other TERFS" more broadly.
 
Art Decade said:
Sure, but that also applies to the existence of a thread titled "J.K. Rowling and other TERFS" more broadly.
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Oh absolutely. And I feel like I've said it before in here. But then I have also thought for a long time that this thread title needs changing away from it being about Joanne Fucking Rowling.

I don't know. I'm all for continued awareness, but I also just feel that "JK ROWLING IN BEING CUNTY TOWARDS TRANS PEOPLE SHOCK" is kinda counter productive nowadays, though I see the reasoning. The dreadful cunt knows EXACTLY which buttons to press and people fall for it every time.
 
In that pathetic podcast just last year she said she respected “real” trans women (meaning those who had had surgery etc) and “always have, always will” recognised their gender.

Not so much now, huh? The speed of brain rot is incredible.
 
Sheena said:
I mean, it's not like we don't already know she's a fucking irrational, rotten TERF. I don't get what the Twitter post achieves, other than revelling in the toxicity of it all, or, to be honest, posting it here- it just gives her more oxygen.

(And that isn't meant as offence @Art Decade - it's intended a questioning opinion, if that makes sense).
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Actually to be honest as someone still learning about transphobia and the complexities of it all, I think it’s very important that these instances of Rowling’s toxicity are highlighted.

I very much believed, years ago, that she couldn’t POSSIBLY be transphobic. Because I always associated such prejudices as being from uneducated and/or provocative people, and JK with her distinguished career and seemingly liberal slant couldn’t possibly be. She just had a different take, could feminism be separated from transphobia, etc

I dare say there are other people out there who feel the same way. Not everyone is as privvy to this discussion, they may not follow trans activists or trans representatives and maybe believe that Jk is a scapegoat because of her status. Maybe she has something interesting to say about the shades of grey in women’s rights and trans rights and how they intersect, and so on.

These posts just highlight that no, she’s a fucking nutcase, is incredibly insensitive and offensive and deserves extra condemnation for using her substantial platform to put this issue into such a toxic, uncomfortable and damaging environment.

Keep it coming I say. She clearly wants to die on her sword. Maybe one day she actually will.
 
Yeah, maybe. Perhaps I’m just living in a bubble where I think her world of nonsense is ridiculously overt now.

I maintain my point that this thread title is outdated.
 
I think mentioning the recent, quite dramatic shift, from Rowling to ‘ I respect trans women but I just want to protect girls that were born female’ to ‘ I am going to deliberately misgender trans women and deny their very existence’ is important to be documented. What she said 6 years ago is very different to what she is saying now.

I think if we dismiss the TERFs as not representing public views that we are in playing with fire.

And since moving to a private school in September, I have heard anti-trans comments on a daily basis from someone in my office. Subtle but it’s there.

The TERFs literally Facebook posted my school with a Tweet that I had made MONTHS before on the day I started at this school in which I said said that I would protect a child and not tell their parents if they came out as trans if I felt they were at risk of harm’. They tried to get me fired and publicly out me as a ‘danger to children’ including accusations of paedophilia and abuse levelled at me.

The school took no notice and were in full support of me, but I think the tide is shifting so dangerously at the moment and will only ramp up as the election comes up. Everyone knows it’s high on the agenda for dragging the populist vote over. And the fact that it is becoming the populist vote says it all.
 
Given that Rowling is such a lightning rod for the TERFs, and gets so much public attention whenever she says something on the matter, I think it makes sense to continue singling her out specifically.

Also, there is still such a large group of people who think of her as "that Harry Potter woman" and are entirely ignorant of how dangerous she's become.
 
The extent to which she is now funding every terf in town is the real worry. Between her and Musk, we're seeing how wealth culture seeks to control and oppress whether it's inherited wealth or money 'earned' from creating a successful franchise (remember, her real money was made from the movies and merchandising, all of which she contributed absolutely nothing towards, she just take a big ol' chunk for the rights, hence putting 'earned' in inverted commas).

She is quite prepared to throw millions behind her beliefs because she can afford to lose it. She could lose 95% of her wealth and still remain very comfortable. Ditto the bloke who pays Laurence Fox's legal fees.
 
It's pretty Book of Stats, but every Tuesday morning, for one hour, some anti vaccine loons protest with their shitty yellow signs, near to my house.

They appear to have changed their signs to anti-trans stuff.

The vaccine loons provoked an absolute barrage of horns being honked, almost constantly. I think I've heard about 2-3 horns being honked every 10 minutes. It's a dual carriage way so there's a lot of traffic.

Based on this alone, I just don't see it connecting with many people beyond the few susceptible to fringe ideas.

I suspect most people don't understand the arguments, a fair amount of the public find it unpleasant and the rest possibly don't see at as a hill to die on despite broadly agreeing with elements of it. It just hasn't stuck and I don't see the arguments having mass popular appeal. There are as ever a very loud minority.
 
www.theguardian.com

No 10 faces Tory backlash over plans to broaden extremism definition

Figures on right of party fear move could have unintended impact on those with socially conservative views
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

“An obvious is example is where I regularly call trans rights activists extremists for believing a man can be a woman just because he says he is, and that this gives him the right to enter women-only spaces, but equally I am called an extremist for believing there are only two biological sexes and that you can’t change sex.”
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:manson:
 
cwej said:
I think mentioning the recent, quite dramatic shift, from Rowling to ‘ I respect trans women but I just want to protect girls that were born female’ to ‘ I am going to deliberately misgender trans women and deny their very existence’ is important to be documented. What she said 6 years ago is very different to what she is saying now.

I think if we dismiss the TERFs as not representing public views that we are in playing with fire.

And since moving to a private school in September, I have heard anti-trans comments on a daily basis from someone in my office. Subtle but it’s there.

The TERFs literally Facebook posted my school with a Tweet that I had made MONTHS before on the day I started at this school in which I said said that I would protect a child and not tell their parents if they came out as trans if I felt they were at risk of harm’. They tried to get me fired and publicly out me as a ‘danger to children’ including accusations of paedophilia and abuse levelled at me.

The school took no notice and were in full support of me, but I think the tide is shifting so dangerously at the moment and will only ramp up as the election comes up. Everyone knows it’s high on the agenda for dragging the populist vote over. And the fact that it is becoming the populist vote says it all.
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Totally agree that the numbers of people with transphobic views have increased - there are YouGov polls that say as much. And i’m not surprised given how relentless the media have been on this. However, I agree with Ag that it is not a “hill to die on” issue for the vast majority of those people and not a vote winner either… most of the public are just too pissed off about the dire state of the country to care.

Back in 2019 I also had TERFs contact my work to try get me sacked from a previous job. My sense then was that these people were very loud and very online wingnuts. Would you say the same with your situation, Cwej? Or has it bled over into normie parents?
 
Tetris-Rock said:
Totally agree that the numbers of people with transphobic views have increased - there are YouGov polls that say as much. And i’m not surprised given how relentless the media have been on this. However, I agree with Ag that it is not a “hill to die on” issue for the vast majority of those people and not a vote winner either… most of the public are just too pissed off about the dire state of the country to care.

Back in 2019 I also had TERFs contact my work to try get me sacked from a previous job. My sense then was that these people were very loud and very online wingnuts. Would you say the same with your situation, Cwej? Or has it bled over into normie parents?
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The school deleted the offending posts on Facebook within an hour or so - they'd literally screenshot things I'd said over a month before... found out what school I worked at (even though I'd not mentioned it on my usual social media - I can only assume they somehow did it through LinkedIn and connecting that to my Twitter).

But as far as I know it's not amongst our parents and was just online lunatics like you say.

Transphobia definitely on the rise agreed and I hope I'm just being pessimistic with my view of the world. But why do you think the big political parties are pushing a transphobic agenda so much (and so vocally) if it's not going to gain them votes? Surely they've done some polling to work out what's likely to give them a positive swing?
 
The independent’s headline today - “JK Rowling deliberately misgenders trans activist India Willoughby” really stuck in my craw.

Last time I checked India was just a TV presenter who happened to be trans. This label “trans activist” seems to be applied to just anybody who is trans and happens to be defending themselves but making them seem like they’re something else. It’s such blatant smearing bullshit.
 
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jivafox said:
The independent’s headline today - “JK Rowling deliberately misgenders trans activist India Willoughby” really stuck in my craw.

Last time I checked India was just a TV presenter who happened to be trans. This label “trans activist” seems to be applied to just anybody who is trans and happens to be depending themselves but making them seem like they’re something else. It’s such blatant smearing bullshit.
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Interestingly, India praised the Independent for being the only paper to even cover the story (at least at the time), but did then state exactly what you have said - that she isn't an activist.
 
cwej said:
But why do you think the big political parties are pushing a transphobic agenda so much (and so vocally) if it's not going to gain them votes? Surely they've done some polling to work out what's likely to give them a positive swing?
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because grabs people and immigrants (the vulnerable) are easy targets to punch down on and if they can make some noise it'll distract from their own failures in government. there's no strategy to it beyond that.

if the gov knew what would give them a big positive swing... they'd have one
 
If you scream and shout long and hard enough, and ensure the media kick up enough fuss, with constant hostile headlines and sly discriminatory wording regularly slotted into articles, eventually even the smallest non-event can be made into a major issue that apparently affects us all. You can slowly convince a group of people that carrots really shouldn't be orange if you try hard enough, either by eventually believing something they initially had no thoughts on whatsoever, because they've been constantly subjected to it, or by tapping into the smallest minority (relatively) who might have a negative opinion, or agree on some level with terfs, but otherwise probably wouldn’t have given it much thought otherwise, much less see it as an issue that makes any difference to their life whatsoever.

And yes I know that's stating the obvious, but it feels like this is the very worst example in recent times.

I do think despite some very vocal cunts at large, with extreme power and influence, any attempt to make this a voting issue or any relevance to an election will aid towards their own undoing, for reasons stated in other posts here.

I still have faith the majority of the public give a collective shrug of indifference on the matter, with a decent proportion being positive towards someone's choice. It's just really shit for trans people to be bearing the brunt.
 
What the right learned from Brexit is how easy it is to make people frightened of things they don't understand. Many of the areas with the highest leave vote were areas with the least immigration, which made them susceptible to bullshit about the entire population of Turkey coming to Norfolk by 2018 and so on. Meantime, areas with relatively high immigration knew it was lies because the supposed danger to the country were our colleagues, friends, partners, spouses etc.

In the same way that most people didn't know an openly gay person in the early 80s, most people don't know an openly trans person. The numbers are always going to be much lower - we are therefore very easy to attack, the minority that are simultaneously easily crushed and powerful enough to destroy everything.

The playbook is exactly the same as that which we have seen many times before. And every time, people are stupid enough to fall far it in numbers.
 
Also I'm sure this has been discussed to death but I'm so sick of this "protect women's safe spaaaaces!" line that keeps being trotted out, especially in regards to toilets and changing rooms. When are most fucking public toilets safe for anyone, anywhere?! The logic is ABSURD. They act like all toilets have a security guard, CCTV and everyone gets an armed escort to and from. Most are dingy, isolated horrors, even in shopping centres they're usually down a random corridor that stinks of piss, and there's nothing stopping anyone walking in any of them, probably unnoticed, and they ALL have signs saying men and women go in there to clean anyway! If someone wants to attack someone in a toilet, there's nothing stopping them really. As if somehow men have never assaulted anyone in a toilet before this. But no, if trans people are allowed in, then we're all GOING TO DIE. It's so stupid. There is literally no logic to the argument - and yet it's constantly being presented as one of the main reasons to justify their agenda. So many cunts, but also THICK CUNTS at that
 
Seems she's not just mask off any more but rather waving the mask around saying "haha did you actually believe this thing?"

Seeing her slide into Glinner level nastiness is quite something. Only a matter of time before she starts openly calling them paedophiles like he does (and I hope she gets sued for every penny when she does, but have my doubts)

On the actual feminist argument of needing protection and safe spaces it's quite interesting as the forms of feminism I saw before all this were "women are strong we're not damsels in distress" etc. But the weak delicate damsels thing seems to be how it's played when it's about keeping trans women out.
 
Honestly, this week and the way it’s gone for India willoughby is just horrible to watch. It honestly wouldn’t surprise me if something horrible happened to her with the pressure she is under from the trolls - and then if she did harm herself in anyway they would argue ‘SEE! It’s a mental illness! No wonder they all self harm.’ Rather than take any responsibility for their own disgusting actions.
 
And now they are both reporting one another to the police. And JK wins either way - she gets hailed as a martyr for women's rights or she is found not guilty of any offences.
 
In 2020, JK Rowling wrote in her essay on this: 'Again and again I’ve been told to ‘just meet some trans people.’ I have: in addition to a few younger people, who were all adorable, I happen to know a self-described transsexual woman who’s older than I am and wonderful. Although she’s open about her past as a gay man, I’ve always found it hard to think of her as anything other than a woman, and I believe (and certainly hope) she’s completely happy to have transitioned.'

Do we think this was all bullshit in the first place? Or do we think she's become further radicalised? Because she wasn't misgendering trans women 3 years ago. Do you think she always felt this way but has become emboldened by the response she's had from TERFs?
 
cwej said:
In 2020, JK Rowling wrote in her essay on this: 'Again and again I’ve been told to ‘just meet some trans people.’ I have: in addition to a few younger people, who were all adorable, I happen to know a self-described transsexual woman who’s older than I am and wonderful. Although she’s open about her past as a gay man, I’ve always found it hard to think of her as anything other than a woman, and I believe (and certainly hope) she’s completely happy to have transitioned.'

Do we think this was all bullshit in the first place? Or do we think she's become further radicalised? Because she wasn't misgendering trans women 3 years ago. Do you think she always felt this way but has become emboldened by the response she's had from TERFs?
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I feel it’s the latter, mainly based on my experience with TERFs in the sport world. I’ve said it here before- it always starts on a platform of “women’s sport must be protected and respected”, and

Sharron Davies and ex- marathon runner Mara Yamauchi are amongst the worst. The latter began campaigning against having trans women in female categories but once she got what she wanted, has started a campaign against “non binary” categories that are being introduced just because it gives (her words) “men” more opportunities for prize money/ success. It’s LITERALLY WHAT YOU ASKED FOR YOU CUNT.

For her, it was the classic case of starting with one aspect, having TERF support and watching her quickly turn into a radical transphobe. JK, I imagine, is exactly the same.
 
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