Lucy Letby - Baby Serial Killer (1 Viewer)

[cwej]

This trial is going to run for up to 6 months... I'm actually amazed that this girl hasn't become infamous already. The story almost beggars belief in its horror and the fact that she... (I know it's a cliché but) looks like she's so NORMAL...

Will she be found guilty?

 

[rhythm bandit]

This trial is going to run for up to 6 months... I'm actually amazed that this girl hasn't become infamous already. The story almost beggars belief in its horror and the fact that she... (I know it's a cliché but) looks like she's so NORMAL...

Will she be found guilty?

She has to be, surely? The evidence seems overwhelmingly strong.

 

[cwej]

Well I'd think so... but it's all circumstantial. Her lawyers would advise her to plead guilty if there wasn't a hope of winning the case at all. Like they don't want to do another Sally Clark (who lost two babies to cot death and was imprisoned for the murders) and put someone in prison just because the probabilities are unlikely. Though the numbers here are overwhelmingly less likely.

I'm mostly amazed it hasn't become one of those Louise Woodward cases that's all over the front page of every newspaper.

 

[Tisch]

She has to be, surely? The evidence seems overwhelmingly strong.

I was prepared to assume this was just because it was the prosecution presenting their case at the moment, and wait and see what the other side had to say, but now they're saying there was confession notes all round her house?

'I am evil, I did this': Nurse accused of murdering seven babies 'wrote confession note'

If true I can't quite believe that hasn't come out before... truly chilling stuff. No doubt ITV are already on the phone to Sheridan Smith...

 

[octophone]

Quite looking forward to rolling this out the next time a TERF says that trans women should be be working in healthcare...

 

[Rita]

This story actually knocks me sick. If Letby is guilty (which is looking increasingly like it is the case) why the FUCK is she pleading not guilty and putting all the poor families of these children through a 6 month trial?

 

[Cerro de Casa]

Horrific.

 

[octophone]

This story actually knocks me sick. If Letby is guilty (which is looking increasingly like it is the case) why the FUCK is she pleading not guilty and putting all the poor families of these children through a 6 month trial?

She may be pleading not guilty on grounds of incapacity.

 

[Rita]

She may be pleading not guilty on grounds of incapacity.

Ah right. So that wouldn’t come out until later?

 

[Rita]

What a sorry state of affairs.

 

[octophone]

Ah right. So that wouldn’t come out until later?

Possibly - I haven't looked into it much. It may be that there are restrictions on reporting that prevent us getting a full picture at this stage.

 

[cwej]

I was of the understanding that you explain the basis of your not guilty plea right from the start? Or am I wrong? They should both have done opening statements?

 

[Finn]

If Letby is guilty (which is looking increasingly like it is the case) why the FUCK is she pleading not guilty and putting all the poor families of these children through a 6 month trial?

Perhaps she's not very nice

 

[cwej]

The story of the mother with the twins I read today, is just horrific. How she could kill one twin then attempt to kill the other the next day knowing how much pain she'd already inflicted upon the family is barbaric. Surely she has to be insane - I don't want to believe that people are that evil.

 

[Star]

I think she must have some form of illness, whether it's insane or psychopath. Her whole behaviour is just beyond anything normal.

 

[octophone]

Surely she has to be insane - I don't want to believe that people are that evil.

Well, that's the abyss, isn't it? None of us want to believe that someone could do that for pleasure.

 

[cwej]

8 months into the trial now and they're on closing speeches. That jury must be exhausted at this point. Imagine having to sit through 8 months of testimony about the horrible ways these babies died.

 

[AGinAg (39)]

Guilty of murdering 7 babies. What a rotter.

 

[Kratz]

Those poor babies. I wonder if the sentencing will be televised.

 

[Slave]

Those poor babies. I wonder if the sentencing will be televised.

She won't be there. Is it wrong to think that if you've been convicted of murdering anyone - let alone seven kids - she shouldn't get that choice?

 

[Kratz]

She won't be there. Is it wrong to think that if you've been convicted of murdering anyone - let alone seven kids - she shouldn't get that choice?

No it isn't, they should drag her there. She's has not been found to be mentally unsuitable to stand trial.

 

[cwej]

It’s become a thing quite recently to refuse to attend the verdict reading. Physically drag them there, I agree. Sorry if that offends liberal attitudes.

This woman must be one of the most evil people this country has ever known. No signs of mental illness. No remorse. No admission of guilt. Dragging this out for 10 months, those poor parents having to trawl through a living hell for them.

This kind of thing is why I cannot believe in any kind of god.

 

[AGinAg (39)]

It’s become a thing quite recently to refuse to attend the verdict reading. Physically drag them there, I agree. Sorry if that offends liberal attitudes.

This woman must be one of the most evil people this country has ever known. No signs of mental illness. No remorse. No admission of guilt. Dragging this out for 10 months, those poor parents having to trawl through a living hell for them.

This kind of thing is why I cannot believe in any kind of god.

Please change title

 

[Christian]

Why bother dragging them into court? The sentence is what matters, not the theatre of announcing it. Plus, these sentencing hearings are incredibly dry in the UK.

 

[Slave]

Why bother dragging them into court? The sentence is what matters, not the theatre of announcing it.

I agree in as much as the only people for whom her presence truly matters are the families who have had to endure this court case for months and months.

Of course, the damage is done to the families by this point. No sentence changes what they have had, and will continue, to endure. I suppose I only imagine that having seen no remorse or even an explanation for why she did what she did, the fact that she doesn't even show up to the sentencing might feel like one final insult. And at this stage, she shouldn't be able to inflict that.

 

[AGinAg (39)]

She sounded like a total basic bitch

Letby was described as 'vanilla' by police because on the surface the NHS nurse seemed entirely innocuous – a plain, single woman going out to salsa sessions with her friends and returning to a suburban semi twinkling with coloured lights where she kept Disney-style cuddly toys on her bed and slept beneath a duvet bearing the similarly childlike motif 'Sweet Dreams'.

The duvet wasn't her only childlike foible. In the minutes after her first arrest her father, John, carefully rearranged her collection of cuddly toys on the bed: Winnie the Pooh, Eeyore, a rabbit and a light brown teddy bear.

When she was asked in court to name her two cats, the killer momentarily hesitated, then almost sobbed their names. 'Tigger and Smudge', she said, wiping away a tear.

 

[AGinAg (39)]

ITV already prepping the 6 part dramatisation featuring Charlotte Ritchie.

 

[ButterTart]

I’ve only read the title of this thread but can I just say it’s a damning indictment of our pre-school system that even babies are becoming serial killers these days.

 

[AGinAg (39)]

Christ I just saw an interview with one of the parents. I hope she dies of a thousand paper cuts to her cunt. What a subhuman cancerous piece of shit.

 

[AGinAg (39)]

Saddest news of the day. Looks like she never was their fantasy.

 

[Finn]

The documentary that the beeb had ready to go immediately is an illuminating but horrible/maddening watch - https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001q7dl/panorama-lucy-letby-the-nurse-who-killed

Moments of note include an interview with her best mate who's absolutely sticking by her; all the stuff with the manager who defended Letby and MADE ALL THE DOCTORS APOLOGISE TO HER after they first raised their suspicions that she might be killing babies; and also the surreal addition that the programme is made and presented by a reporter who looks quite a lot like Lucy Letby herself -

 

[BoysForSeles]

I’ve only read snippets so far and obviously have no idea of what hospital stats are in terms of baby mortalities but I’m agog it took so long to connect her when you look at the rapid timelines of attacks. Just awful.

 

[Finn]

Surely she has to be insane - I don't want to believe that people are that evil.

This woman must be one of the most evil people this country has ever known. No signs of mental illness. No remorse. No admission of guilt.

This poses an interesting question for me and I'm not fully sure of the answer but... what is the difference? Like, if you're killing babies surely you are insane? Even if there's not some set medical term for it, isn't being 'evil' on this level just the name for some mad inner wiring causing someone to do horrible things?

I don't know by the way, but I'm not sure we can make the distinction between a serial killer being evil and insane.

 

[Iguana]

This poses an interesting question for me and I'm not fully sure of the answer but... what is the difference? Like, if you're killing babies surely you are insane? Even if there's not some set medical term for it, isn't being 'evil' on this level just the name for some mad inner wiring causing someone to do horrible things?

I don't know by the way, but I'm not sure we can make the distinction between a serial killer being evil and insane.

I was saying just this earlier today. What is the definition of having a psychiatric illness if it doesn't include KILLING BABIES?

 

[Tetris-Rock]

I was saying just this earlier today. What is the definition of having a psychiatric illness if it doesn't include KILLING BABIES?

To pin the blame generically on “mental illness” (which is an extremely broad church in terms of conditions) simultaneously removes culpability and stigmatises every other person living with mental illness who isn’t violent or murderous. A quick Google suggests that the idea that mental illness is commonly a factor in these situations is a misconception or at least is far from a given.

There are also debates around whether psychopathy and sociopathy can or should be classed as mental illnesses.

(Apologies if this comes off a bit short - my mum spent a fair bit of time in inpatient facilities when I was a kid so these kinds of assumptions wind me up.)

 

[Finn]

I get that argument too - although I think it skips past the fact that most people mercifully now realise "mental illness' covers a very broad church of conditions - but isn't putting someone doing something like this down to them being 'evil' a bit, well, fairytale? It's got to be a mix of physical make-up and circumstances, surely?

 

[Iguana]

To pin the blame generically on “mental illness” (which is an extremely broad church in terms of conditions) simultaneously removes culpability and stigmatises every other person living with mental illness who isn’t violent or murderous. A quick Google suggests that the idea that mental illness is commonly a factor in these situations is a misconception or at least is far from a given.

There are also debates around whether psychopathy and sociopathy can or should be classed as mental illnesses.

(Apologies if this comes off a bit short - my mum spent a fair bit of time in inpatient facilities when I was a kid so these kinds of assumptions wind me up.)

I'm sorry to hear about that, and I didn't think you were short. I also don't mean to pin all the blame on "psychological illness". But I also don't believe in "evil" - I believe something internally has to be driving people to make terrible decisions without empathy.

I also think the concept of what "psychological illness" is changes over time, certainly at law if not clinically - some of the case law from 100 years ago around the subject is terrifying to read. We have a more nuanced view of it now, but I still think it will continue to evolve.

 

[cwej]

I find it interesting that no case of psychological illness/insanity was put forward to get a different verdict. Clearly her lawyers thought there was a good chance she would get cleared with the evidence they had. And it really does all seem to be circumstantial. Apart from those notes in her diary - which are… just extraordinary.

 

[Beverley]

I don’t think Hitler and Stalin etc were mentally ill? That’s just the sort of language we resort to because we can’t comprehend why people would do such heinous things.

 

[VoR]

Would we think of Hitler and Stalin as mentally rational though?

I feel like it’s impossible to use ‘mental illness’ as a catch-all term in cases like this, because it both implies a reduced culpability and also risks stigmatising mentally ill people as a whole.

But I think I’m in a similar place to @Iguana where I have a really hard time with the idea that a totally normal, rationally-thinking person could do such hideous things. There has to be something - and concluding that ’some people are just evil’ feels like it abandons the possibility of ever finding an explanation.