The Israel-Gaza war and wider Middle-East tensions

Bit confused that Moopy has stopped talking about anything connected to this. These are escalations in significant world events.
 
AGinAg (39) said:
Bit confused that Moopy has stopped talking about anything connected to this. These are escalations in significant world events.
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I think that's pretty normal for geographically detached audiences. Like with everything else, people become desensitized and the reactions are all the same.
 
AGinAg (39) said:
Bit confused that Moopy has stopped talking about anything connected to this. These are escalations in significant world events.
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A lot of the most active posters on this topic aren’t around anymore. This is not an unstressful topic to post about, albeit much less stressful than actually living in the conflict zones.
 
There's nothing else to say. Israel are beyond control and we are powerless to stop them - the UK election changed nothing and the US election will change nothing in terms of government policy so now what? It's awful, utterly awful...but what to do?
 
They just don't give a fuck anymore. They're going to keep killing until someone either intervenes or hands them the keys to the entire East Mediterranean coastline. At this point it seems like Netenyahu thinks the latter might be possible.
 
funky said:
They just don't give a fuck anymore. They're going to keep killing until someone either intervenes or hands them the keys to the entire East Mediterranean coastline. At this point it seems like Netenyahu thinks the latter might be possible.
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I think that's exactly right. There have been no consequences for obliterating Gaza so why stop there? It's beyond conception.
 
The justification seems to be that people in Lebanon rent spare bedrooms to Hezbollah for use as rocket launcher bases so they can bomb whoever they want.

Fucking wild.
 
I think Israel did not want to risk a repeat of October 7th, but this time by the much more threatening Hizbullah to the north. So they took the initiative.

Hizbullah is playing the game poorly though. They're avoiding a proper war, hoping to engender a ceasefire and come out looking like the 'defender of peace' and gain the favor of Palestinians. But this was never going to work. And now they're stuck in the middle. They can't switch to a full war, because they don't want to risk their position in front of Lebanese and Palestinian civilians, so many of their senior commanders are DEAD and Iran won't risk the US getting involved; and they can't afford to play it quiet anymore because they're humiliated. I think that's why their response has been pretty limited, only hitting military targets.
 
Sending bombs into another recognised country without declaring war and hitting civilians in the process is not limited. Nor is it proportional by UN Charter standards.
 
funky said:
Sending bombs into another recognised country without declaring war and hitting civilians in the process is not limited. Nor is it proportional by UN Charter standards.
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When you compare it to Israel's attacks on northern Lebanon, Hizbullah's response is very modest. That's why I said "limited". I'm basing it on the relative response.
 
KindaCool said:
When you compare it to Israel's attacks on northern Lebanon, Hizbullah's response is very modest.
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No, it really isn't. Iran's proxy, AKA Hizbullah, has been firing HUNDREDS of rockets & missiles every day for the past 11.5 months. They finally get what they deserve.

Moreover, they don't "just hit military targets". Civilians have been killed, too.
 
Voodoo said:
No, it really isn't. Iran's proxy, AKA Hizbullah, has been firing HUNDREDS of rockets & missiles every day for the past 11.5 months. They finally get what they deserve.

Moreover, they don't "just hit military targets". Civilians have been killed, too.
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Do provide sources. Because the analyses I've been reading have been saying that Hizbullah's response has not been on the same level as Israel's.

I'm also referring to just this last week's exchange. Perhaps you're referring to the entirety of the war?
 
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They haven't been firing hundreds of rockets every day for the past year. Let's just be "correct" about that.
 
let's get a death toll of Hezbollah's limited attacks on Israeli territory vs the 569 killed on Monday this week in Lebanon by Israel if we're being asked to believe this is some kind of measured response or an equal playing field. is the Israeli death toll in triple digits? double even?

if it has been aggressed, Israel deploys the same response as in Gaza - killing hundreds, soon thousands, and using it as a shameless opening for escalation into a war nobody in Israel wants except Netahanyu and a few IDF chiefs.
 
Voodoo said:
As if you know what the average Israeli wants. Ha!
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well one of my closest friends is Israeli and currently employed by the IDF (to sew bags lol) and sends me near daily updates about the war and how people around him in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem see it. and they certainly don't want escalation with Lebanon. call me naive but I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find many Israeli people who do, except perhaps a handful of trigger happy loons like you.
 
Jark said:
well one of my closest friends is Israeli and currently employed by the IDF (to sew bags lol) and sends me near daily updates about the war and how people around him in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem see it. and they certainly don't want escalation with Lebanon. call me naive but I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find many Israeli people who do, except perhaps a handful of trigger happy loons like you.
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Your friend must be an extremist leftist then, just like you.
 
Based on this poll, I'm inclined to agree with Voodoo's assessment of public opinion:

Israeli Opinion on War with Hezbollah

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

One has to assume they take the UN stance into account in their rethoric. Given that Western support is crucial, it may lead locals to adopt a more dovish tone when speaking to Westerners or it's simply dovish Israelis having more Western friends.
 
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It was probably a likely implication from the beginning. The amount of resources that Israel has allocated to their efforts against Hizbullah would support that outcome.

From Israel's perspective, it's now or never. Israel's vulnerabilities have been exposed and Netanyahu's pride has obviously been bruised and he wants revenge; the pager attacks has given them advantage and momentum; Hizbullah has been shelling and displacing Israelis from the beginning, so a ground operation is a natural extension - especially since they're in a weak spot right now; and the way they see it, if Israel can't rely on the Lebanese government to control their own powerful and historically hostile terrorist group like Hizbullah from bombing their territory then they'll have to go in and do the job themselves. Considering all this, Israel isn't gonna call it a day now and wait for Hizbullah to recuperate and attack them again in a decade. It's way too late for that.

BUT. A ground operation will basically be pushing the parameters of this conflict to its limits. And given that Netanyahu has grown bold and desperate, it wouldn't surprise me if other parties become involved. If this ground offensive happens, Iran will be forced to make a more susbtantial response. They've played the waiting game for too long. If Israel goes into Hizbullah territory and Iran does nothing, its benefeciaries will lose confidence and Iran will be laughed at.

But, who knows? Both Hizbullah and Israel may be considering other options on the table.
 
I realise it's probably fruitless asking this question, but what on earth is the long-term strategy here, beyond keeping Netanyahu out of prison for as long as possible?

If Isreal was under threat from its neighbours before, it is surely tenfold so now. What's the end game? When does this stop?
 
VoR said:
I realise it's probably fruitless asking this question, but what on earth is the long-term strategy here, beyond keeping Netanyahu out of prison for as long as possible?

If Isreal was under threat from its neighbours before, it is surely tenfold so now. What's the end game? When does this stop?
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The end goal is probably control of the entire land between the river and the sea with international recognition.
 
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