J. K. Rowling and other TERFs

But WHY?

Why would you campaign against something that has nothing to do with you? Are people really that BORED?
 
Well they claim to be 'defending women' but it just boils down to hate. Same as people who campaigned against the gays back in the day. Even their arguments are similar. They still haven't copped that the groups they've allied themselves with would roll back womens rights in a heartbeat if they could.
 
Hostility to trans people is a relic of second wave feminism which has clung on until the present day and gained popular traction through a number of arguments that are largely not backed by hard evidence and mirror those already used to hold back progress of marginalised groups in the past. Often these arguments rely on dog whistle politics (if you ever see anyone arguing that they stand up for “women’s sex-based rights”, this essentially means they are only concerned with pushing trans people back into the margins of society in the name of “protecting women.”)

The arguments themselves are a complete bag of contradictions. For example, they protest the idea of sharing women’s spaces with trans women yet to access hormones or surgery, whilst also simultaneously working to make it harder for trans women to access that care. Trans women have been using women’s spaces for years essentially entirely without issue - a few isolated examples of issues exist and are held up by TERFs as exemplary. Their arguments are invented to justify the inherent disgust that people feel towards trans people... I describe it as the same as that feeling homophobes get when they see two men kissing. Of course, it isn’t persuasive enough to just say that, hence the window dressing of women’s and children’s rights. The goal is literally to stop trans people from existing (which of course can't really happen, but in practice from having information that helps them understand their gender identity, feeling safe to come out, from being able to access gender affirming care, etc)

It started off with a bedrock of insane TERFs opposed to reform of the Gender Recognition Act, which dictates how trans people receive legal recognition for their gender through a currently very expensive, humiliating and laborious process. Their voices have been amplified by cash from the Christian Right and a media who are fond of scapegoating minority groups to distract from real problems. The reason it seems to be such a problem in the UK is that TERFism has caught on across the political spectrum, whereas even in the US, transphobia appears to be largely the preserve of the right. The family values angle does brings in Conservatives here, but in the UK the feminist angle also appeals to a sizeable chunk of leftists and liberals. I'd say middle aged and middle class women are the absolute bedrock of the movement and their fervour is almost cult-like in nature.

I'm very much happy to answer anyone's questions about it as I think it is important that people, particularly gays, are aware of the true nature and extent of the problem. Alongside the David Paisley situation, this week has also seen Liz Truss (as Minister for Women and Equaliies) push back against Stonewall because of their unwavering support for trans rights. This is absolutely unprecedented stuff for modern times.
 
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One thing that really baffles me is why the feminist 'angle' on transphobia has caught on so much here, while feminists everywhere else in the world wonder what the fuck is going on with UK feminism.
 
Put simply, the UK has no understanding of the word "intersectional". The US in particular has a much stronger grounding in how prejudices multiply across race, gender, class, sexuality etc. The UK is so blind to its prejudices (largely due to their continual indulgence within the mass media) that it simply cannot see beyond its narrow definitions of who/what is "acceptable".
There's also selfishness. The UK has no real idea of community and can very rarely see what they gain from other cultures, whatever culture that may be. Think Priti Patel looking to impose policies on immigration that would have prevented her own parents coming to the UK, apply it here and you've got it.
 
There's also the fact that if you're a middle-aged female journo sliding inexorably towards irrelevence in a fast-changing media landscape (Suzanne Moore, Eve Barlow, Hadley Freeman etc) you're pretty much guaranteed a paid column in a major newspaper if you throw together 700 words of ill-informed transphobic nonsense once a month.
 
VoR said:
There's also the fact that if you're a middle-aged female journo sliding inexorably towards irrelevence in a fast-changing media landscape (Suzanne Moore, Eve Barlow, Hadley Freeman etc) you're pretty much guaranteed a paid column in a major newspaper if you throw together 700 words of ill-informed transphobic nonsense once a month.
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Indeed - the Columnist Class are a major contributor. It's one thing to be a contrarian for cash if you're insisting that James Newman was hard done by, quite enough when you're fuelling prejudice and violence.
 
Dipping almost exclusively into the same privately-educated pool for your progressive commentariat AND your hateful edgelords probably isn't ideal.
 
funky said:
But WHY?

Why would you campaign against something that has nothing to do with you? Are people really that BORED?
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This is really is one of the core questions for me, too. I still don't understand how progressing standard human rights for everyone is making some feel like they're some sort of an endangered species. Are people really that insecure? Or maybe they're just scared the clock is starting to tick when it comes to their privileges based on nothing but archaic standards? The mind BOGGLES.
 
Apocalypt Flyer said:
This is really is one of the core questions for me, too. I still don't understand how progressing standard human rights for everyone is making some feel like they're some sort of an endangered species. Are people really that insecure? Or maybe they're just scared the clock is starting to tick when it comes to their privileges based on nothing but archaic standards? The mind BOGGLES.
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I think, for a lot, it's the perceived loss of privilege that has them rail against any form of progression of human rights. It happened here with the marriage equality referendum where you had straight men complaining that letting the gays get married would render their own marriage worthless. It happens with conservatives in the US with the BLM movement where support for people of colour is looked at as an attack on white people.
 
I think that kinda nails it. Perceived loss of privilege provokes a natural sense of self defence and that can manifest in the form of attack. It of course lacks any human decency, world view and is wrapped up in selfish entitlement.

Sound like the UK in general now?
 
It's grotesquely black and white too. The perception that loss of space or platform is being given up to men disguised as women is dripping in nastiness and lack of experience. Funny how trans men, don't appear to have had the same backlash.
 
Ag said:
It's grotesquely black and white too. The perception that loss of space or platform is being given up to men disguised as women is dripping in nastiness and lack of experience. Funny how trans men, don't appear to have had the same backlash.
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The trope is "Women: You're Not Safe In A Bathroom" - the reason trans men aren't copping it is because a trans man is not perceived as a potential physical threat to a cis man. It's absolutely horrendous how Rod Liddle - a man with an actual police caution for assaulting his female partner wants women to believe that trans women area threat and he isn't. The whole thing is bullshit.

The scenario has literally never happened. As was pointed out severally; you are statistically more likely to be attacked in a bathroom by a member of Girls aloud than a trans woman.
 
Ag said:
Funny how trans men, don't appear to have had the same backlash.
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I think there's a whole utterly twisted psyche about trans men having been women before and thus aren't seen as a "danger" whereas the opposite applies to trans women. It's transphobia dipping its toe into the sexism pond.

I wish I could articulate it better (or maybe I don't because I find this way of "thinking" truly grim) but this is the vibe I am picking up from this topic in e.g. in the sports world.
 
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Apoca definitely onto something there.

The attitude towards trans men is very paternalistic. Like women, trans men are infantilised and treated as “troubled sisters who have lost their way”, particularly by lesbians who feel like they are “losing one of their own.” I feel like there is particular chat about trans men “mutilating” their own bodies when they get chest surgery as though their breasts exist for other people’s benefit, which I think speaks to the ownership that people and society feels like it has over women’s bodies (I say women because that’s how trans men are perceived by TERFs).

TERFs claim that internalised misogyny (and sometimes homophobia) is the reason that trans men transition - which just shows a fundamental lack of understanding of what it is like to be trans, quite frankly.
 
The 'Women: You're Not Safe In A Bathroom' business has real echoes of children not being safe from gay men we were hearing half a century+ ago. Look how far we've come.
 
Tetris-Rock said:
TERFs claim that internalised misogyny (and sometimes homophobia) is the reason that trans men transition - which just shows a fundamental lack of understanding of what it is like to be trans, quite frankly.
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But that’s them suggesting that trans people are trans because of social rather than genetic factors. Which is also going back about 50 years.

I know we’ve got a long way to go but I honestly thought we were past the basics, for fucks sake.
 
I think arguably we were but we’ve gone backwards. Which I think mirrors previous movements for equality as well. Progress is made, society starts to feel threatened by it and then there’s a backlash. Lather rinse repeat.

On the other point, no-one chooses to be trans. Arguably people choose whether or not to medically transition, but even then that’s the choice of whether to take steps to alleviate dysphoria or not. There is no alternate reality once you have realised you may be trans that you can put that back in the box and carry on as before, even if that would be a lot easier. Trust me, I know.
 
The only point I'd pick there is that, despite the backlash I suspect that support for the trans community is way more significant than it's ever been.

In the 80s homophobia was the absolute norm. Something like 80% of people didn't think gay relationships should be accepted. Despite the morons, there are also a lot of enlightened folk now.

Otherwise, agreed.
 
It does feel like one of those one step forward two steps back moments. You see it when there are protests like BLM - a minority of people who don’t represent the movement get violent, the media decides to focus on that, and the message gets muddled. The difference here, which is what I just can’t seem to wrap my head around, is that there is no militant or agressively progressive trans movement happening right now. It just seems to a be a load of people who aren’t directly impacted by trans rights suddenly creating a load of noise about things that should just be a natural development of rights alongside the rest of us. They’re (terfs) creating their own scandals and dramas. The feminist thing is just a lazy way of making it about themselves. When it’s not about them at all. Just fuck off already!
 
I'm struggling to think of words to swap for them: low gumption bigots is my first attempt. I'll have a power nap on it.
 
Unfortunately Maya Forstater has won her appeal - the TERFs are out in force claiming that their transphobia is now legally not prejudice whereas all that's happened is that they've acknowledged that enough people are transphobic to render it a worldview that requires to be considered.
Twitter is already a cesspool.
 
Kate said:
Royal Academy removes TERF cunt artist's work from their shop, then puts it back and apologises. :manson:

www.theguardian.com

Royal Academy of Arts apologises to Jess de Wahls in transphobia row

Artist’s work had been withdrawn from gift shop over comments about sex and gender made in 2019
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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I absolutely don’t understand this case at all - it is surely the right of the RA to choose whatever they sell in their shop. They are not obliged to carry any artist’s works!
 
On a positive note, Trans Pride in London on Saturday was pretty MASSIVE and went off largely without incident. I had fear beforehand that police would respond aggressively, but it was fine and the vibe was very celebratory and empowering.

There were also probably multiple thousands as opposed to hundreds of people there, which shows that trans people and our supporters outnumber the TERFs multiple times over. Which is of course probably the reason it was the only one of many protests in London on Sat that the Guardian didn’t bother to mention?

Also I saw Bimini as they joined the crowd with their friend - what a fucking icon.
 
Ugh Twitter is alight with the hashtag 'No thank you.' I thought it was an anti-vaxxer thing but turns out it's a TERF thing..
 
I know this is a topic for HATE :disco: but just thought people with a passing interest in it may like this interview with Judith Butler in the Guardian (I know!) where she talks about Gender Trouble, her career, intersectionality and how TERFs are just DAUGHTERS of NEO-LIBERALISM with MIU-MIU HANDBAGS without having to refer to them by name a single time :disco: :disco: :disco:
 
I mean she does mention them later on, but not in my favourite pull-out quote from the interview even though she's basically saying they're aligning themselves with the people who do not have their interest at heart:

The anti-gender ideology movement, a global movement, insists that sex is biological and real, or that sex is divinely ordained, and that gender is a destructive fiction, taking down both “man” and “civilization” and “God”. Anti-gender politics have been bolstered by the Vatican and the more conservative evangelical and apostolic churches on several continents, but also by neoliberals in France and elsewhere who need the normative family to absorb the decimation of social welfare.
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Judith Butler is TERF Kryptonite because she's well-reasoned, articulate and dignified.
 
Just been reading quite a bit (spurred on by something a friend posted on Facebook) on how recent Green Party Executive Committee elections have been somewhat hijacked by TERF-y Mumsnet types, identifying those candidates as being for their cause, and many of them got elected. I don't know how true it is and how much Mumsnet really holds sway, but i can't imagine those positions get a lot of voters.

Similarly they're looking to elect Shahrar Ali as party leader, who has very openly said some stupid TERF things on twitter.

I dispair.
 
Indie said:
Just been reading quite a bit (spurred on by something a friend posted on Facebook) on how recent Green Party Executive Committee elections have been somewhat hijacked by TERF-y Mumsnet types, identifying those candidates as being for their cause, and many of them got elected. I don't know how true it is and how much Mumsnet really holds sway, but i can't imagine those positions get a lot of voters.

Similarly they're looking to elect Shahrar Ali as party leader, who has very openly said some stupid TERF things on twitter.

I dispair.
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Yeah, the Scottish Greens had to put out a statement condemning the English Greens after they wrote a long, Terfy response to the Scottish Gender Recognition Act consultation.
 
The Guardian shat it and deleted a chunk of the Judith Butler piece; the bit where she got properly tore into the Terfs. Absolute shower of cunts, fuck the Guardian's centrist bullshit.
 
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