Labour (and Conservative) Party SPLIT

Six of Change UK's 11 MPs, including Chukka and Heidi Allen, have left the party. Anna Soubry is the new leader.

Not in any way a complete farce.
 
I fucking wish Allen and Umunna would just bite the bullet and join the Lib Dems the absolute pricks.
 
I'm amazed that the other 5 have chosen to continue. They're dead in the water.
 
Penelope said:
They almost certainly will.
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Then they should have done it then and there rather than going independent again. If they do join the Lib Dems, then that will be three changes in 6 months for them. The Lib Dems have told them they'll welcome them with open arms.
 
cwej said:
Then they should have done it then and there rather than going independent again. If they do join the Lib Dems, then that will be three changes in 6 months for them. The Lib Dems have told them they'll welcome them with open arms.
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The Lib Dems have said on a topline level they'll welcome them into the party with open arms. In practice, they'll have to negotiate a few things first (e.g. whether they would automatically be the Lib Dem candidate for their constituency - even if there's already a candidate selected - or whether they would be forced to go through a reselection process with the Lib Dem membership). In practice, nobody really cares if they've been independents for a few weeks in the meantime.
 
I'm pleased he's joined them to be honest. I hope it's the beginning of a few more defections.
 
Can't help laughing at Umunna - his ambition is in bits and his only hope was to try and still be a big fish in a small pond. Piss off, you self-serving tosser.
 
I agree with what someone else said on Twitter about Umunna though. His movement from party to party recently has been a reflection of the lack of party to represent the centre ground. The Tories are shifting further right, the Labour party are all over the place with a far left leader, but a confused line on anything, Change UK were effectively an attempt at a single-issue party to counter Brexit party...

He's trying to find a place, because there hasn't been a clear one for people like him.
 
cwej said:
I agree with what someone else said on Twitter about Umunna though. His movement from party to party recently has been a reflection of the lack of party to represent the centre ground. The Tories are shifting further right, the Labour party are all over the place with a far left leader, but a confused line on anything, Change UK were effectively an attempt at a single-issue party to counter Brexit party...

He's trying to find a place, because there hasn't been a clear one for people like him.
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That's ridiculous. He could have defected straight to the Lib Dems from Labour if that was really the case.

The truth is that he is self-serving. He left Change UK only after their somewhat dismal European elections results.
 
I don't mind Owen Jones. He's basically an example of the phenomena Daniel Kitson described - you might someone further to the right than you and they're a capitalist fuckpig, you meet someone further to the left than you and they're an unrealistic hippie waster, you meet someone who thinks pretty much the same as you do and you think "yeah, OK, but at least I'm not a dick about it".
 
Beverley said:
And I don't think it's accurate to call Labour a far left party
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I didn't call labour a far left party. I literally said they are 'all over the place, with a far left leader, but a confused line on anything'. I don't think it's in any way inaccurate to call Jeremy Corbyn far left. He is hugely supported by extreme socialists and communists. Incidentally, I haven't got a problem with that - what I have a problem with is the confusion within the party about what they now stand for.
 
No need for the snarky 'in your opinion. It's not my opinion; it's their opinion. People like Ash Sarkar are big Corbyn supporters and proclaim themselves to be communists. Owen Jones, big Corbyn supporter, very much proclaims to be a Socialist. These are not MY labels - they are labels they give themselves. And like I said - I'm not even averse to those groups really.

I mean it's the exact equivalent of Nigel Farage being a far right leader. He IS followed by far right people, and frankly that makes him a far right leader. Because he leads people of the far right.

I'm not really sure what your issues is with it!?
 
cwej said:
No need for the snarky 'in your opinion. It's not my opinion; it's their opinion. People like Ash Sarkar are big Corbyn supporters and proclaim themselves to be communists. Owen Jones, big Corbyn supporter, very much proclaims to be a Socialist. These are not MY labels - they are labels they give themselves. And like I said - I'm not even averse to those groups really.

I mean it's the exact equivalent of Nigel Farage being a far right leader. He IS followed by far right people, and frankly that makes him a far right leader. Because he leads people of the far right.

I'm not really sure what your issues is with it!?
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genuinely, not being sarky.

the issue that I have with your characterisation, to be far more blunt that I was before, is that Corbyn's policies are just not far left. we've moved so far to the right on the political spectrum since thatcher and neolib that what is actually a fairly commonsensical left policy is now positioned as far left.

i'd like you to consider for a moment that Corbyn is popular with people you consider socialist because he's the nearest thing that this country has gotten to one in YEARS (at least one who has a viable chance of getting elected PM). the comparison to Farage fails. shred Farage of his supporters and judge him according to his statements and 'policies'. you'll find he's very much a far-right demagogue. ON THE FACTS
 
where's mugatu when you need him? he's far better (and more knowledgeable) about this shit than me

i'm just here to school the basics on race and religion. i can't do politics as well :disco:
 
Tom Watson articulating the benefits of Europe and remaining in the EU beautifully this morning. If only this was the Labour leaders speech.

 
OT (NAR): how much weight has he lost?! He looks like a different person!
 
and why exactly is this freshly skinny legend not the actual leader of the Labour party? he seems highly "electable", to employ some meaningless political terminology
 
But yeah, he now looks like an a-level tutor that was sound with you, compassionate and understanding, as well as being wise, but never trying to be cringy and down with the kids. 10/10 would place an X next to.
 
Since I was requested by name and Iā€™m bored at work:

The notion that the centre ground in British politics has suddenly disappeared is a myth driven by hysterical newspaper columnists who had their brains destroyed by Brexit.

I canā€™t remember who called centrists ā€œconservatives who expect a thank-you noteā€ but it was completely correct. Posturing about being politically homeless is histrionic nonsense. Working-class people have been politically homeless since the 1980s ā€“ and some of them end up literally homeless! It would be great if the decline in unions was given the same attention as all the people cutting up their Labour membership card for the third time that year.

Centrism has been locked firmly in place for decades. If it had truly vanished, then the bed-wetting over Corbynā€™s supposed radical socialism wouldnā€™t be happening. Itā€™s still the cultural and political default in so many ways ā€“ Labour are still courting big business, theyā€™re still planning to increase military spending. Itā€™s all been absorbed into this common sense consensus.

The celebrity communists who have latched onto the party recently are really only radical on the surface ā€“ youā€™ve got to remember that most of these people are total London media careerists. Their communism is basically liberalism wearing a black balaclava. Even as a Remain voter myself (I do resent putting that disclaimer in front of everything), how you can be an avowed communist and support an institution like the EU is beyond me.

Thereā€™s a serious gap in the logic of how some people like Tom Watson try to square socialism with EU membership. The ā€œsocialism is internationalismā€ mantra is meaningless if you canā€™t build socialism in your own country first. The EU is fundamentally tied to free-market capitalism ā€“ and that shouldnā€™t be a Labour value. I donā€™t understand how he can look at what happened in Greece and conclude that the EU isnā€™t a bossesā€™ club, economically.

At this stage, the reform argument isnā€™t realistic at all. It would require huge shifts in the government of major powers like France and Germany, the unprecedented success of a massive pan-European political movement and an EU bureaucracy willing to lose their jobs, power and wealth.
 
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